Since it wasn't in the article, [here's a photo of the 875,400 nails that were discovered](https://i.imgur.com/WEOb0Ji.png). Keep in mind that every single nail in that pile was made by hand.
Now you're gonna need to carburize a nail into steel, make a die with supports small enough that metal that flows around it forms into a seamless tube, then carburize and add chromium to the other nail and form it into a seamless stainless steel tube.
You need to draw that stainless steel tube through forming rollers to make it fine enough to work as a hypodermic needle, cut the tip at a sharp angle and autoclave it to be safe to use.
After that you need to hire a compliance engineer to catch up on the paperwork on making a medical device.
But before you do all that, ask why they wanted to find that specific hypdermic needle in a pile of nails. If it was a used needle and they need it for a forensic investigation, your day just got a lot worse.
Based on how it was a round number it’s likely an estimate. Count out 50-100 and weight them to get the average weight and go from there. The larger the sample size the more accurate the estimate.
Dirt has no relevance for rust. Rust is oxidation -- requires oxygen.
The article mentions that the first layer excavated was a sheet of rust. Deeper layers were very good.
Hypothesis: clay soils are resistant to water and air ingress. The top layers of nails oxidized and took up most of the dissolved oxygen for water that did penetrate. The remainder rusted lightly (as described in the article) and exhausted the available water dissolved oxygen.
Except they have nails of a vastly different length. Some are 2 inch, some are 16 inch so they would not only need the average of the masses, but also a weighted average of the links.
Yes, and in this case, a random sample would not be representative and the conclusions would be invalid. See the 1936 Literary Digest poll. Bigger ain't better if it ain't representative.
*...I am writing you in the best of health, despite the lack of change in my personal manhood. I revealed myself, at the behest of local harlot, and she informed me of what I already knew, and I quote, "That which you doth carry would not be sufficient to pick even the finest of locks!"
Weirdly enough, it was Le Marquis de Circle. By chance, he wanted to be able to set a weekly poker game with a fluctuating number of players where no one player was further from the middle than the others. Distance from the center being a social cue for status, the Marquis desired for the weekly entente to be a meeting of equals in spite of social status.
Consequently, the Marquis commissioned a new type of table from a local artisan, whereby no seated person would be further from the center than another. Said artisan created a rounded table (deviating from the standard "cornered" table) where no person seated would be further from the center than another, regardless of the number of seated parties.
Originally called the "soft-sided square" table. This revolutionary new design rapidly became a hit among the newly empowered proletariat. Gaining popularity under the name of the table's original patron, *Circle*.
An interesting note about the language of the time, the soft C hadn't been invented, and because he was French, the Marquis wasn't allowed to pronounce all the letters of his name, so it was originally pronounced like Urkel.
The square nails were made by machine, which would cut them from a sheet of steel and press the head in a single operation. They wouldn't be invented until around 1800 or so.
Even more interesting was that the way the nails corroded (or failed to corrode) told scientists some things they might be able to use to make reliably secure containers to bury nuclear waste in. (From the way it sounds, if you include a sacrificial outer layer that's intended to rust, it will protect the inner container from oxidation, because in the mass of nails, only the nails on the outside rusted, despite them all being exposed to moisture.)
[link](http://www.glasgowsteelnail.com/research.htm)
This is more or less something we’ve already known. There are chemicals that are so corrosive they almost instantly corrode any vessel they are put in. But the layer of corrosion makes it safe.
I think they're talking about a slightly more sophisticated design than merely a thicker, sacrificial layer...I guess they're assuming that moisure is going to get to the vessel, but want to render that water relatively inert by using a layer at a distance from the actual vessel...but that's just my surface level guess at what they'd do with that information.
Galvanized Steel has been around since at least 1836, and a French alchemist in 1742 started dipping clean iron into molten zinc, creating a cheap protective coating for household utensils.
People have known for a very long time that sacrificial materials used as a coating help prevent corrosion; it’s just interesting to know what compounds the Romans were using for the purpose.
That's a thing used in metallurgy nowadays. When they make gates and fences, they have a way to corrode the outer layer, it gives the gate way more resistance and an old look. It's called passivation.
As far as I have read in the past, the romans covered the nails in animal fat before burying them so that they would have a putrid smell that would deter the enemy from reusing them. Perhaps that could have assisted in the preservation.
True, the fats might have leached away over time, but the original effect might have either persisted or was enough of a catalyst for the effect to continue as the scientists observed...in other words, once the outside started to rust, the rust stayed there because it was already there, even though the substances keeping the interior from rusting were already gone.
Look at rust jacking, it expands and can shatter concrete.
The ball of nails rusted, and expanded into a solid rust layer.
The trick is to make a surface that seals once its rusted. Pretty effective at permanently sealing the container from continuing to rust.
More metal is just delaying how long it takes to rust through.
See, I'm not a materials scientist, but maybe making the outer layer somewhat porous rather than having it be a solid piece for the surface rust to infect and work its way inwards...not directly analagous, but like the slat armor on tanks that activate shaped charges farther away than their effective distance...keep the rust farther away from the actual vessel...
So not quite "just make walls thicker", change the construction to concentrate the corrosion to the outside and discourage it from going to the interior.
This is already a thing.
The science behind marine corrosion is [crazy.](https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2012/july/types-of-marine-corrosion)
One of the funniest things I saw on ebay was when someone sold one of these nails. It was in a presentation box clearly stating it was from Inchtuthil. The seller put in the description (and the main title) that it was a "crucifixion nail from the time of Jesus". The highest bid at the time was £300.
"Crucifixion Nail **from the time of Jesus**" that's a clever way to not lie about the nail origins. There were definitely people who mistook that for a nail that impaled Christ.
I have one of these nails in my collection! It’s mounted on a piece of wood from the Windsor Castle. I knew the history of the hoard of nails being found in Scotland but never saw the photo of the big pile of nails that somebody posted here!
I'm Roman Mars, now located 6 blocks north in beautiful... uptown.... Oakland.... California.
[https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nuts-and-bolts/](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nuts-and-bolts/)
99PI is one of my favorite podcasts. It's like a long format, audio version of TIL.
I very often see TIL's that have the topic, or some tidbit from a recent podcast in it. In this case, I had just finished listening to it.
The Romans were thorough when it came to destruction. They supposedly hated the Carthaginians so much that they salted the earth so nothing would grow around Carthage once they finally conquered it.
Nah that's a myth. The Romans rebuilt Carthage and Roman Carthage had a population of half a million. Romans loved arable land, why waste expensive salt on land you now own.
> They supposedly hated the Carthaginians so much that they salted the earth so nothing would grow around Carthage once they finally conquered it
That's a myth https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/salting-carthage/
Hundreds of thousands made by hand
No one else has asked: did they make them in batches, like in a mould where they could pour iron in a make them by the dozen
Since it wasn't in the article, [here's a photo of the 875,400 nails that were discovered](https://i.imgur.com/WEOb0Ji.png). Keep in mind that every single nail in that pile was made by hand.
You the real MVP. Who the f*** writes an article about 7 tons of Roman nails and doesn't include a picture of all those God damn nails!?
> Who the f*** writes an article about 7 tons of Roman nails and doesn't include a picture of all those God damn nails!? Nailed it.
Right in the head!
Let that sink in.
Depending on who took the photo it could still be under copyright then in which case they couldn't use it on a commercial website
Kinda shocked it took that long to find a big pile of nails sitting out in the open like that.
I heard they took great care to hide the nails, so it checks out
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50% of my nails are made by my hands
This is the correct answer
For most...
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And the average for women is 0>
no? its just 0
A handmaiden. A hand made 'em.
They were disguised as factory made nails. Nobody suspected a thing
Probably pushed them under a bed. That's where I hide things
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I hate loosing all my cryptocurrencies because some idiot crashed a helicopter
“Loosing” Oof.
Lool
Now find the needle
Ah yes, the old needle in a nail stack.
This is for those playing in extreme mode... It also slows those people cheating with metal detectors...
Just take any two nails and use a hammer and anvil to fold the end of one over the other to form an eye. Presto! A needle.
But what if they meant a medical needle, you know the hollow type...
Now you're gonna need to carburize a nail into steel, make a die with supports small enough that metal that flows around it forms into a seamless tube, then carburize and add chromium to the other nail and form it into a seamless stainless steel tube. You need to draw that stainless steel tube through forming rollers to make it fine enough to work as a hypodermic needle, cut the tip at a sharp angle and autoclave it to be safe to use. After that you need to hire a compliance engineer to catch up on the paperwork on making a medical device. But before you do all that, ask why they wanted to find that specific hypdermic needle in a pile of nails. If it was a used needle and they need it for a forensic investigation, your day just got a lot worse.
Carburize is one of those words that sounds like it should be made up, but isn't
I thought I was in r/VXJunkies for a second
Damn, the real TIL is always in the comments. Now I know how to invent needles if I ever get stuck in the past
Fold it the other way.
Nice ;P
This joke is on point.
Yes, very sharp
You’re all too sharp for me, I’m out!
Yeah, let's go get hammered!
They just had to drive nearby with a brand new set of tyres on. That’s how it works for me anyway.
What if they hid their nails in a pile of nails?
like finding a nail in a haystack
RIP dude that had to count them.
753,003 753,004 Hey Joe hows it going? "Good" Dang. 1 2
Weigh one?
These are handmade nails over a thousand years old, no way they are close to a consistent weight.
They probably average just fine when the count is approaching a million.
Look at how varied they are in size though
That's just not good enough for a precise count, which is what they need.
Based on how it was a round number it’s likely an estimate. Count out 50-100 and weight them to get the average weight and go from there. The larger the sample size the more accurate the estimate.
Do I count out the 2 inch ones or the 16 inch ones?
Yes.
Its like no one of you even looked at the damn picture
Why did they need a precise count?
For science.
You monster.
Yeah but these are the Romans, they were known for keeping precise measurements of their inventory and logistics while planning campaigns.
Were they known for rust resistant iron?
If you believe Vladimir Putin who says he has a nail from the True Cross, then yeah.
Romans had the ability to weigh things my guy
Was their iron magically able to resist rust for a thousand years in dirt?
Dirt has no relevance for rust. Rust is oxidation -- requires oxygen. The article mentions that the first layer excavated was a sheet of rust. Deeper layers were very good. Hypothesis: clay soils are resistant to water and air ingress. The top layers of nails oxidized and took up most of the dissolved oxygen for water that did penetrate. The remainder rusted lightly (as described in the article) and exhausted the available water dissolved oxygen.
That only works when they are similar in weight.
Or you could weigh a known number of nails, find the average per nail and extrapolate from there.
Except they have nails of a vastly different length. Some are 2 inch, some are 16 inch so they would not only need the average of the masses, but also a weighted average of the links.
Random sampling is widely used. It works well as long as the sample is suitably large.
Yes, and in this case, a random sample would not be representative and the conclusions would be invalid. See the 1936 Literary Digest poll. Bigger ain't better if it ain't representative.
Take a look at the photo, you can see they're all different sizes.
So are people, but you can still calculate an average weight.
Yo mama so fat she can't be averaged, she has to be cowculated
Imagine this being what sets off the metal detector after years of searching... 'But the history is priceless' Dang it.
nailed it
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Good. Fuck that researcher. He won't admit it, but he's Caledonian, himself.
Handmade nails? Isn't that the Margaret Atwood book?
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They're between 2 and 16 inches in length.
In other words, at least twice as long as u/Nulltan’s penis
Call me old fashioned, but 8 inches is still fairly impressive.
Ehh, not something to write home about. Mostly because writing home about the size of your dick is mighty weird. :P
*Dear Father,* *my penis has not changed in length nor in girth since I’ve written you last…..*
*...I am writing you in the best of health, despite the lack of change in my personal manhood. I revealed myself, at the behest of local harlot, and she informed me of what I already knew, and I quote, "That which you doth carry would not be sufficient to pick even the finest of locks!"
Dear Son, No I am not sending you any more money for penis pumps or pills. Please see a doctor before you hurt yourself. And use a spam filter.
*P.S. Make sure you clear your browsing history daily*
The "at least" means that even the 2 inch ones would be twice its size.
u/Nulltan catching strays out here 😩
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Damn, you don’t even know how small your penis is?! Self-burn
Cant measure what you cant see!
I would pay $20 for one of these nails.
For a 60 penny yeah, 5 penny not so much
But her e-nails!
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Good point, the circle wasn't invented till the 1920s
Who invented it?
Renault Square de la Triangle
Modern historians point to Werner Von Rectangle zu Hohenrhombus’s work with early ovals as an important precursor though
Helix Octoganious Parralellogram-ious was the first person to discover the dot.
Hohenrhombus was a hack
Typical
Think I went to school with his grandchild.
Weirdly enough, it was Le Marquis de Circle. By chance, he wanted to be able to set a weekly poker game with a fluctuating number of players where no one player was further from the middle than the others. Distance from the center being a social cue for status, the Marquis desired for the weekly entente to be a meeting of equals in spite of social status. Consequently, the Marquis commissioned a new type of table from a local artisan, whereby no seated person would be further from the center than another. Said artisan created a rounded table (deviating from the standard "cornered" table) where no person seated would be further from the center than another, regardless of the number of seated parties. Originally called the "soft-sided square" table. This revolutionary new design rapidly became a hit among the newly empowered proletariat. Gaining popularity under the name of the table's original patron, *Circle*.
An interesting note about the language of the time, the soft C hadn't been invented, and because he was French, the Marquis wasn't allowed to pronounce all the letters of his name, so it was originally pronounced like Urkel.
When asked late in life regarding his accomplishments he was quoted as saying “did I do that?”
Dementia is a sad sad thing
Alexander Pi of Knossos
I thought it had been a round for longer than that.
The circular heads weren't perfect, and was just peened iron.
>peened iron Go on…. 😏
The square nails were made by machine, which would cut them from a sheet of steel and press the head in a single operation. They wouldn't be invented until around 1800 or so.
Every ceramic jar? I'm looking at you legionnaire Linkus of Zeldas
But he always had one problem - every time he would leave a room and come back the jars would reappear.
[Relevant Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXmMQJMFL_I).
To note: in English, the word is Legionary. A legionnaire is a type of French soldier.
Even more interesting was that the way the nails corroded (or failed to corrode) told scientists some things they might be able to use to make reliably secure containers to bury nuclear waste in. (From the way it sounds, if you include a sacrificial outer layer that's intended to rust, it will protect the inner container from oxidation, because in the mass of nails, only the nails on the outside rusted, despite them all being exposed to moisture.) [link](http://www.glasgowsteelnail.com/research.htm)
This is more or less something we’ve already known. There are chemicals that are so corrosive they almost instantly corrode any vessel they are put in. But the layer of corrosion makes it safe.
This mass of nails was found in the 60s, so I think you’re both right
I think you’re all wrong about everything and I refuse to explain why.
I found your comment funny
I think they're talking about a slightly more sophisticated design than merely a thicker, sacrificial layer...I guess they're assuming that moisure is going to get to the vessel, but want to render that water relatively inert by using a layer at a distance from the actual vessel...but that's just my surface level guess at what they'd do with that information.
Galvanized Steel has been around since at least 1836, and a French alchemist in 1742 started dipping clean iron into molten zinc, creating a cheap protective coating for household utensils. People have known for a very long time that sacrificial materials used as a coating help prevent corrosion; it’s just interesting to know what compounds the Romans were using for the purpose.
You're still essentially describing a sacrificial layer of oxidation that builds up at moisture exposure and protects the surface from further rust.
It's called a sacrificial anode and they're frequently used on things like bridges
Also, apparently they weren't just carpentry nails, but crucifixion nails.
Hence the sacrificial layer
Go home dad, you’re drunk off the communion wine
Nailed it
Someone planned on crucifying 875,000 / 4 people?
3 if you’re economical.
Just 2 would do it if you skipped the crossbar and just nailed them to a pole
Or just 1 through the center
Ouch
But don’t you use crucifixion nails on carpenters?
Karen Carpenter wouldn't even need a nail. A good thumbtack would suffice. Yes, I am a bad person.
Source on that?
They’re carpentry nails.
Jesus will save us from nuclear decay!
Looks like 50 crucifixion nails and 10k framing nails.
That's a thing used in metallurgy nowadays. When they make gates and fences, they have a way to corrode the outer layer, it gives the gate way more resistance and an old look. It's called passivation.
*Cor-Ten has entered the chat*
As far as I have read in the past, the romans covered the nails in animal fat before burying them so that they would have a putrid smell that would deter the enemy from reusing them. Perhaps that could have assisted in the preservation.
True, the fats might have leached away over time, but the original effect might have either persisted or was enough of a catalyst for the effect to continue as the scientists observed...in other words, once the outside started to rust, the rust stayed there because it was already there, even though the substances keeping the interior from rusting were already gone.
If I'm understanding this correctly, just make walls thicker? Who would've thunk
Look at rust jacking, it expands and can shatter concrete. The ball of nails rusted, and expanded into a solid rust layer. The trick is to make a surface that seals once its rusted. Pretty effective at permanently sealing the container from continuing to rust. More metal is just delaying how long it takes to rust through.
See, I'm not a materials scientist, but maybe making the outer layer somewhat porous rather than having it be a solid piece for the surface rust to infect and work its way inwards...not directly analagous, but like the slat armor on tanks that activate shaped charges farther away than their effective distance...keep the rust farther away from the actual vessel... So not quite "just make walls thicker", change the construction to concentrate the corrosion to the outside and discourage it from going to the interior.
That’s actually really interesting and makes some math I’m learning quite a bit more interesting
This is already a thing. The science behind marine corrosion is [crazy.](https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2012/july/types-of-marine-corrosion)
One of the funniest things I saw on ebay was when someone sold one of these nails. It was in a presentation box clearly stating it was from Inchtuthil. The seller put in the description (and the main title) that it was a "crucifixion nail from the time of Jesus". The highest bid at the time was £300.
"Crucifixion Nail **from the time of Jesus**" that's a clever way to not lie about the nail origins. There were definitely people who mistook that for a nail that impaled Christ.
I’m selling a rock from the time of Jesus. I found it in my backyard. Actually it’s probably older but for simplicity’s sake I’ll round down.
I have one of these nails in my collection! It’s mounted on a piece of wood from the Windsor Castle. I knew the history of the hoard of nails being found in Scotland but never saw the photo of the big pile of nails that somebody posted here!
You stole a nail?
In all seriousness, they needed to fund the excavation and sold off some of the nails as collectors’ items in the 60s
They found the pile in 1960, but just forgot to mention it to anyone.
Bought it from a woman who bought it many years ago. Some of them were mounted and sold to collectors.
>my collection Go on; what else have you got there, bub?
What about a second nail
All sorts of interesting historical artifacts.
… Such as lol
Handmade nails is a little redundant, like that’s where they grow
Feetmade nails
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I'm up voting you even though this pun indicates that you're a bad person.
*Jesus has entered the chat*
The nails were left by the Legio XX Valeria Victrix, not the mysterious missing ninth legion. https://youtu.be/drmVao6Q4vY
Mysteriously missing due to a mysterious accounting error, wasn't it?
Could have been merged with other legions, but unlikely to have been destroyed in combat
More about the lost legion https://www.historyhit.com/the-eagle-of-the-ninth-what-do-we-know-about-romes-ninth-legion/
Hid the fuck out of those nails.
They nailed it
I'm Roman Mars, now located 6 blocks north in beautiful... uptown.... Oakland.... California. [https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nuts-and-bolts/](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/nuts-and-bolts/)
It’s unfair He was born with a perfect podcast voice. And I got the one voted “most suitable for silent film”
Perfect late night jazz station DJ voice. Except when he laughs. Also, he loves flags so that's redeeming.
Yas!!!!!!!!b I fu**ing love 99% Invisible!
99PI is one of my favorite podcasts. It's like a long format, audio version of TIL. I very often see TIL's that have the topic, or some tidbit from a recent podcast in it. In this case, I had just finished listening to it.
Yeah it’s a GOAT podcasts for sure.
Nice, not too far from my current location!
“Screw you, future archaeologists!”
In the military if a rotary wing crashes you throw a thermite grenade in to destroy everything, radios, crypto, avionics so they can't learn from it.
Someone just listened to 99% Invisible!
Well clearly they didn't take such great care. The nails were eventually discovered. Did you even read the article?
Wow they nailed their objective
Does anyone have a picture of how that garrison might have looked like?
90AD Hide and Seek champs
So they failed to successfully hide the nails then?
They weren't found for nearly a thousand years, so I think you can call that a success.
Nailed it
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant
My nails are handmade as well...
The Romans were thorough when it came to destruction. They supposedly hated the Carthaginians so much that they salted the earth so nothing would grow around Carthage once they finally conquered it.
Nah that's a myth. The Romans rebuilt Carthage and Roman Carthage had a population of half a million. Romans loved arable land, why waste expensive salt on land you now own.
> They supposedly hated the Carthaginians so much that they salted the earth so nothing would grow around Carthage once they finally conquered it That's a myth https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/salting-carthage/
Salt was incredibly expensive and why would they ruin their own farmland? Never understood this myth
where were they hidden?
In the earth. Umder a demolished building. One that was identical to all the other demolished buildings.
now try to find the hay in the needle stack
Y’all realize everything was handmade until about 200 years ago?
The point is that nails were extremely valuable back then
Hundreds of thousands made by hand No one else has asked: did they make them in batches, like in a mould where they could pour iron in a make them by the dozen
No each one was hand forged. Cast steel would make a very poor nail. And now that I think about it I don't think they had the ability to cast steel.