Based on a lil SunCalc play, that photo looks to have been taken at [about this time of year](https://www.suncalc.org/#/43.6424,-79.3871,14/2024.02.26/16:40/553.3/1) (or its autumnal equivalent in October) at 4:45pm or so. But the real problem with using this Mufasan concept of land possession is that even the longest possible shadow pointing north at the solstice [barely reaches Dundas](https://www.suncalc.org/#/43.6423,-79.3905,14/2023.12.21/12:01/553.3/1).
I will say there isn't a huge difference in density / verticality/ busyness west of Bathurst on Bloor, College, Dundas or Queen. I guess you could say Fort York and the lands directly north of it up to Wellington provide a natural sort of demarcation point, if a person is in search of such a thing.
I live 5 minute walk east of the don river, and it’s ridiculous the number of people from outside the city think I live downtown.
Nooo. Anything east of the DVP (or don river here) can never nor will it ever be considered downtown.
The other side of that is the people who have no problem going to from the core to Roncy or The Junction, but will balk at crossing the Don because it's "too far."
To be fair though, I’m at queen and broadview and went to Roncy for dinner for 6pm. Took me over an hour in traffic. So I try not to either since it’s so bad these days after they tore down the gardiner off ramp to lakeshore.
This. Unless you're from outside the city.
Then it's anywhere in the old/pre-amalgamation city borders.
At least from the folks I've met that reside outside of Toronto.
Interesting piece, I’m in the process of selling my house in Oakville and moving in. From a 905er’s perspective, I consider Bloor-Bathurst to the DVP and south to the lake “Downtown” outside of that, particularly heading north, things get a little fuzzy. I consider anything midtown is anything between Rosedale-Summerhill and Lawerence Ave and North Toronto, anything North of Lawerence. Bear in mind this is fuzzy and depends which realtor you talk to.
If we agree St. Clair to Eglinton to Lawrence is midtown, then I would put the northern downtown border at the south end of midtown. I propose using the ancient shoreline of Lake Iroquois, where the steep hill south of St Clair is located, as that dividing line. At the bottom of the hill is downtown, and the top is midtown.
True. I think it’s more about intangibles like “character” and “vibe.” If we’re looking for tangibles, it’s probably linked to the preponderance of residential dwellings vs businesses.
Disagree, midtown ends at Eglinton to the North, maybe 2 blocks north - even though it's reported as the 'centre' of midtown - and Bloor to the south.
North of Eglinton was always 'North Toronto' but the name seems to have dissapeared
I don't think downtown is a square, but I might tighten it to Sherbourne and Spadina to get "only downtown" or expand it to Dupont and the Don to get "all of downtown".
The intersection of Parliament-Front just doesn't feel like downtown to me.
If you took a tourist there and told them that was downtown I think they'd be confused/disappointed.
And the distillery is pretty far from it. It’s a pleasure area now but it was industry when it first arose. It was intentionally built far from the centre of the city.
That’s not true at all. The city started with the original 10 blocks which were between Church Street, Adelaide Street, Berkeley Street and Front Street. The distillery district is just one block away from those 10 blocks. Much closer than Yonge and Dundas.
Parliament street is called Parliament because the upper Canada parliament was located kitty corner to the distillery district, at front and parliament.
This is the original city of Toronto (well, York)
https://www.blogto.com/upload/2015/07/20150728-OldestHood-Map.jpg
The distillery is immediately east of there. Initially in the early 19th century there was a windmill there, hence Mill St. The distillery complex was built later in the mid 19th century
In any case the location certainly wasn’t picked for its distance from the city
I agree, but I also don't think a lot of Bathurst feels downtown either. Clearly neither Bathurst or Parliament are "downtown core", but fine for them to be considered downtown just to have some type of boundaries.
I’m not sure, I kind of think of the waterfront as being it’s own separate thing. But I know everyone says downtown goes all the way to the lake, won’t dispute!
One of the more interesting points to consider from this opinion piece:
>As the city grows, the definition of “downtown” is changing. This century, Toronto has graduated from big city to proper metropolis. It is now the fourth-largest urban area in North America, behind only Mexico City, New York and Los Angeles (and ahead of Chicago). In step with that growth, its downtown has grown taller (all those skyscrapers) and bigger.
>
>But how much bigger, definitionally speaking? You can start a pretty good argument these days about what actually constitutes downtown. Some would say I am dreaming to think I live “downtown” when my place is all the way out there by Dufferin. After all, there is a big suburban-type mall – Dufferin Mall – just a few blocks from me.
>
>Officially, Toronto’s urban boundaries changed in 1998, when the provincial government lumped the central city in with suburbs such as North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough to create an amalgamated city under a unified government with a single mayor and city council. You could argue that the former polity known as Toronto, and often referred to as the “old city of Toronto,” is now essentially downtown Toronto. One bit of evidence is that the men and women who represent that old city tend to be called “downtown councillors.”
>
>In fact I would argue that you could call anything south of Eglinton Avenue downtown without going seriously astray. But there are legions who dispute that. Some say it is madness to call anything north of Bloor Street downtown. Others draw the line a little farther north at Dupont and Davenport streets, or, at a stretch, St. Clair Avenue.
>
>Times change, terms change. What used to be the distant suburbs are now called the “inner suburbs,” distinguishing them from the new suburbs and exurbs that have gobbled up farmers’ fields all around Greater Toronto. College and Yonge used to be considered midtown Toronto. Then Bloor and Yonge got that label. Now Yonge and Eglinton is sometimes called midtown. You would have seen the same progression in Manhattan in the 20th century as New York boomed.
It's always interesting to think about what various definitions of the constituent parts of our city/region might be, and how they have changed over the years. Further muddying the waters are the nascent central areas of surrounding communities like North York, that could also be considered a local downtown of sorts.
Generally speaking though, my personal N-S boundary for downtown is probably sitting at St Clair (or maybe Dupont) right now, with the East and West boundaries at the Don River and maybe the rail corridor, respectively. These are all relatively soft boundaries for me though.
Only when taking to outsiders. Otherwise we still stick to the Borough designations. Scarborough, east York, North York, etobicoke, our identities are still going strong.
Being in Scarborough, I only refer to Toronto to people not familiar with Toronto. Otherwise, I just say Scarborough. Or I'll say "technically" Toronto but really, Scarborough.
I think Toronto “feels” more “downtown” on the eastern side, primarily because that’s where it was built up first…up to the Don Valley, before they built the Bloor viaduct, which is why people are saying DVP. Remember that Parliament St. got its name for a historical reason. I agree and would say Bathurst (Garrison Creek, which is now a sewer basically…at the foot of which is Fort York) over to Parliament, then Bloor on the top. I would include the Ex grounds as part of downtown.
Bloor at Yonge marks the northern boundary of Downtown. Eglinton at Yonge marks the northern boundary of Midtown. Uptown ends at York Mills and Yonge. North of that is suburb.
Always blows my mind that this is still Toronto. Like it's full on farm land. But it's Toronto. [https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8496325,-79.1783728,3a,75y,163.3h,71.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sErfIThqc3XnphdpWGCgOxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8496325,-79.1783728,3a,75y,163.3h,71.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sErfIThqc3XnphdpWGCgOxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) Toronto is HUGE.
So you're using the old lake Iroquois shoreline as the north boundary, but the thing is that shoreline swings to the NE at Avenue Rd. So it means that Rosedale is part of the downtown
A lot of maps use the Rosedale Valley as a marker, then perhaps Ramsden Park is a satisfying line, before picking up Davenport/Iroquois west of Avenue.
I think to redefine downtown we'd need to see more aggressive zoning for high rises outside the tradition boundaries that is still directly adjacent to downtown.
The older part of a city is generally defined as the downtown section.
Just going by history (every single city has a downtown where it originated from).
I consider them both to be their own things honestly… just not really part of “downtown”. Just like I don’t consider the distillery district or liberty as anything but their own areas. To me midtown is Y+E centered maybe davisville to blythwood ravine, mt pleasant to avenue.
I consider all to be in old Toronto however.
I am sitting in a SB looking at downtown North York’s Mel Lastman Square, having a dark roast before getting on the subway to go to the real downtown around the Eaton Centre and Nathan Phillips Square. Toronto born ( back then York County) and mostly bred.
G&M paywall so can't see what the article says or is about.
"Downtown" is an antiquated phrase. Used to mean business center at some point in time but now that businesses can spread far and wide across a city it's become less and less meaningful.
You can still call the old business center downtown though, even if it has lost its original meaning.
For me, downtown ends where the municipality of York starts, that alley directly north of St. Clair. Everything south of that has a Toronto feel. Ossington is the western border, and DVP is the east.
In the old days, the 1970's, "Downtown" for me was Yonge Street from Queen to Bloor. It was vibrant and fun, with lots of little shops that were locally famous, like Master John's for boots, House of Lords for haircuts, The Gasworks for a cold beer, Sam the Record Man for albums. There were a ton of owner-operated restaurants.
Now it's dead and corporate. Boring as fuck.
Nah, if they're doing that they'll use high park, the rail corridor to the north, and the DVP. That perimeter only has a few dozen points of access to control. Think U of T published a study on it.
In my opinion downtown is an out-dated and dare I say western construct. In a real metropolis, the entire city would be downtown with high density of businesses, houses and transit. I think its a mistake to centralize everything into a small area of the city because it creates so much traffic and challenging logistics.
Outdated for sure, but... _western_? The concept of a central commercial district or market square is pretty common around the world. Maybe you could argue that western cultures have a specific infatuation with "downtown", or a very specific definition, but at it's core a downtown is just a modern implementation of an ancient concept.
If you ask this question in hamilton. The answer is "anything off the mountain"
How it works for cities that don't have a clear cut "down" part of the city I've never understood.
Downtown is where the TTC bus map says it is. [https://map-of-toronto.com/img/1200/toronto-bus-map.jpg](https://map-of-toronto.com/img/1200/toronto-bus-map.jpg)
That's the entire subway line.
There is no chance that Kipling and Queensway or Danforth and Warden are "downtown."
My definition is taller than it is wide because of the Don Valley puts a hard stop to it, but even Rosedale, Trinity-Bellwoods etc. are out for me.
Lake Ontario, Kensington, Yorkville, and Jarvis are my approximate boundaries, and those are definitely broader than I would have said a decade ago.
Bathurst Bloor Jarvis Front is where I landed.
My partner wanted: Bathurst Bloor Yonge Front.
Bathurst is to Spadina what Jarvis is to Yonge.
We both agreed Lakefront space/community is separate from downtown.
Whatever the CN Towers shadow touches
[You might be joking but the CN Tower's shadow goes all the way to the DVP](https://i.imgur.com/pK5BXZt.jpeg)
Based on a lil SunCalc play, that photo looks to have been taken at [about this time of year](https://www.suncalc.org/#/43.6424,-79.3871,14/2024.02.26/16:40/553.3/1) (or its autumnal equivalent in October) at 4:45pm or so. But the real problem with using this Mufasan concept of land possession is that even the longest possible shadow pointing north at the solstice [barely reaches Dundas](https://www.suncalc.org/#/43.6423,-79.3905,14/2023.12.21/12:01/553.3/1).
absolutely hanging onto "Mufasan"
Hang onto this, too: _Zazu was literally a dinosaur_
You are right about the time it's a earthcam screen shot from Feb 24th at just before 4:50pm
I like your giant sundial idea!
Bathurst, Bloor, Don River, Lake.
The actually city defined boundary isn’t Bloor, it’s Davenport/Dupont. But everything else is correct
That makes sense. Yorkville should be included.
All my life I thought Ossington was the western boundary
Bathurst = End of core Dufferin = End of downtown That's how I see it.
Dufferin? That seems really far west to be downtown. I've always heard Bathurst/Bloor/Don Vally and then either lake or Lakeshore as southern.
Transition Zone
THE END OF HARBORD. (to which someone in the 80s asked me, "Harbord ends?")
Ahh yes, the Yonge Street of east/west
I'd have to agree. Bathurst is too close.
I agree with you
If you feel inclined, let it be so
I will say there isn't a huge difference in density / verticality/ busyness west of Bathurst on Bloor, College, Dundas or Queen. I guess you could say Fort York and the lands directly north of it up to Wellington provide a natural sort of demarcation point, if a person is in search of such a thing.
I live 5 minute walk east of the don river, and it’s ridiculous the number of people from outside the city think I live downtown. Nooo. Anything east of the DVP (or don river here) can never nor will it ever be considered downtown.
To the suburbans we think anywhere theres tram tracks is considered downtown.
The other side of that is the people who have no problem going to from the core to Roncy or The Junction, but will balk at crossing the Don because it's "too far."
To be fair though, I’m at queen and broadview and went to Roncy for dinner for 6pm. Took me over an hour in traffic. So I try not to either since it’s so bad these days after they tore down the gardiner off ramp to lakeshore.
A friend who lives in Markham at Main and 16th suggested "let's meet downtown" but meant Yonge and Eglinton. I thought that was cute.
Yup
The only answer...
This is the way
This. Unless you're from outside the city. Then it's anywhere in the old/pre-amalgamation city borders. At least from the folks I've met that reside outside of Toronto.
Dufferin within 10 years
Yep seems reasonable to me.
Interesting piece, I’m in the process of selling my house in Oakville and moving in. From a 905er’s perspective, I consider Bloor-Bathurst to the DVP and south to the lake “Downtown” outside of that, particularly heading north, things get a little fuzzy. I consider anything midtown is anything between Rosedale-Summerhill and Lawerence Ave and North Toronto, anything North of Lawerence. Bear in mind this is fuzzy and depends which realtor you talk to.
If we agree St. Clair to Eglinton to Lawrence is midtown, then I would put the northern downtown border at the south end of midtown. I propose using the ancient shoreline of Lake Iroquois, where the steep hill south of St Clair is located, as that dividing line. At the bottom of the hill is downtown, and the top is midtown.
True. I think it’s more about intangibles like “character” and “vibe.” If we’re looking for tangibles, it’s probably linked to the preponderance of residential dwellings vs businesses.
Disagree, midtown ends at Eglinton to the North, maybe 2 blocks north - even though it's reported as the 'centre' of midtown - and Bloor to the south. North of Eglinton was always 'North Toronto' but the name seems to have dissapeared
‘North Toronto’ was a relic even before amalgamation, and has mostly been kept alive by the BIA on the north side of Y&E
As well as the GTHL which has a North Toronto hockey club in the Yonge / Eglinton area.
Midtown goes to Lawrence
I was on the subway one day and overheard someone saying that 'midtown Toronto, around Steeles is quite nice!' And I sat there bewildered
Bloor Bathurst parliament the lake
I’d argue DVP instead of parliament, but this also works.
Cabbagetown is downtown though- I’d argue the river is the natural eastern border.
I don't think downtown is a square, but I might tighten it to Sherbourne and Spadina to get "only downtown" or expand it to Dupont and the Don to get "all of downtown".
The intersection of Parliament-Front just doesn't feel like downtown to me. If you took a tourist there and told them that was downtown I think they'd be confused/disappointed.
Regent Park feels a lot more "downtown" than the corner of Huron Street and Grange Ave.
And is a much nicer show now thanks to improvements and a massive reduction in crime.
Parliament and front is pretty close to the distillery district. Do we consider the distillery as part of downtown?
Yea
I dont. It’s too far away.
Far from what
They *are* downtown
the centre of downtown. The university/yonge section.
The centre of downtown is Yonge and Dundas.
And the distillery is pretty far from it. It’s a pleasure area now but it was industry when it first arose. It was intentionally built far from the centre of the city.
That’s not true at all. The city started with the original 10 blocks which were between Church Street, Adelaide Street, Berkeley Street and Front Street. The distillery district is just one block away from those 10 blocks. Much closer than Yonge and Dundas. Parliament street is called Parliament because the upper Canada parliament was located kitty corner to the distillery district, at front and parliament.
This is the original city of Toronto (well, York) https://www.blogto.com/upload/2015/07/20150728-OldestHood-Map.jpg The distillery is immediately east of there. Initially in the early 19th century there was a windmill there, hence Mill St. The distillery complex was built later in the mid 19th century In any case the location certainly wasn’t picked for its distance from the city
That’s literally the oldest part of the city, which is kind of funny
I dunno, the Distillery District is a pretty popular tourist destination.
So is Canada's Wonderland, but that doesn't make it downtown.
Huh? That’s one of the oldest parts of the city.
I agree, but I also don't think a lot of Bathurst feels downtown either. Clearly neither Bathurst or Parliament are "downtown core", but fine for them to be considered downtown just to have some type of boundaries.
Bloor Bathurst Parliament Front?
The CN Tower isnt downtown?
Why would downtown stop at front street? Queens quay isn’t downtown to you?
I’m not sure, I kind of think of the waterfront as being it’s own separate thing. But I know everyone says downtown goes all the way to the lake, won’t dispute!
The Gardiner gates the banished lands
No, lots of things below front street that are still downtown
You’re right. I kind of like the rail corridor-rosedale valley road definition of the north boundary as well. Feels right
So the CN tower, Ripleys, the ACC, Union, Queen’s Quay, and Billy Bishop aren’t downtown?
One of the more interesting points to consider from this opinion piece: >As the city grows, the definition of “downtown” is changing. This century, Toronto has graduated from big city to proper metropolis. It is now the fourth-largest urban area in North America, behind only Mexico City, New York and Los Angeles (and ahead of Chicago). In step with that growth, its downtown has grown taller (all those skyscrapers) and bigger. > >But how much bigger, definitionally speaking? You can start a pretty good argument these days about what actually constitutes downtown. Some would say I am dreaming to think I live “downtown” when my place is all the way out there by Dufferin. After all, there is a big suburban-type mall – Dufferin Mall – just a few blocks from me. > >Officially, Toronto’s urban boundaries changed in 1998, when the provincial government lumped the central city in with suburbs such as North York, Etobicoke and Scarborough to create an amalgamated city under a unified government with a single mayor and city council. You could argue that the former polity known as Toronto, and often referred to as the “old city of Toronto,” is now essentially downtown Toronto. One bit of evidence is that the men and women who represent that old city tend to be called “downtown councillors.” > >In fact I would argue that you could call anything south of Eglinton Avenue downtown without going seriously astray. But there are legions who dispute that. Some say it is madness to call anything north of Bloor Street downtown. Others draw the line a little farther north at Dupont and Davenport streets, or, at a stretch, St. Clair Avenue. > >Times change, terms change. What used to be the distant suburbs are now called the “inner suburbs,” distinguishing them from the new suburbs and exurbs that have gobbled up farmers’ fields all around Greater Toronto. College and Yonge used to be considered midtown Toronto. Then Bloor and Yonge got that label. Now Yonge and Eglinton is sometimes called midtown. You would have seen the same progression in Manhattan in the 20th century as New York boomed. It's always interesting to think about what various definitions of the constituent parts of our city/region might be, and how they have changed over the years. Further muddying the waters are the nascent central areas of surrounding communities like North York, that could also be considered a local downtown of sorts. Generally speaking though, my personal N-S boundary for downtown is probably sitting at St Clair (or maybe Dupont) right now, with the East and West boundaries at the Don River and maybe the rail corridor, respectively. These are all relatively soft boundaries for me though.
South of Bloor
Annex and Yorkville has been considered downtown for a long time. They are just north of Bloor.
“Downtown” is too often used to mean the entire city of Toronto.
Agreed. People in the burbs consider themselves to be Torontonians, and the whole City of Toronto to be downtown lol
Only when taking to outsiders. Otherwise we still stick to the Borough designations. Scarborough, east York, North York, etobicoke, our identities are still going strong.
Being in Scarborough, I only refer to Toronto to people not familiar with Toronto. Otherwise, I just say Scarborough. Or I'll say "technically" Toronto but really, Scarborough.
What do you consider the burbs? Mississauga, Markham etc?
Yeah the burbs outside the City of Toronto. Durham, York, and the ones you mentioned.
Why, it’s a Petula Clark song, of course.
Came to say it's where you go when you're alone and life is making you lonely. /ht
Also, a good cover by the B-52s.
Does anybody really know what time it is?
It's twenty five or six, to four.
I have 9 past 8
No, we’re talking about Toronto
No, this is Patrick, St. Patrick station.
I think Toronto “feels” more “downtown” on the eastern side, primarily because that’s where it was built up first…up to the Don Valley, before they built the Bloor viaduct, which is why people are saying DVP. Remember that Parliament St. got its name for a historical reason. I agree and would say Bathurst (Garrison Creek, which is now a sewer basically…at the foot of which is Fort York) over to Parliament, then Bloor on the top. I would include the Ex grounds as part of downtown.
Bloor at Yonge marks the northern boundary of Downtown. Eglinton at Yonge marks the northern boundary of Midtown. Uptown ends at York Mills and Yonge. North of that is suburb.
Always blows my mind that this is still Toronto. Like it's full on farm land. But it's Toronto. [https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8496325,-79.1783728,3a,75y,163.3h,71.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sErfIThqc3XnphdpWGCgOxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8496325,-79.1783728,3a,75y,163.3h,71.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sErfIThqc3XnphdpWGCgOxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu) Toronto is HUGE.
I don't remember *why* I ended up there, maybe we were diverting off 401, but farmland and fresh corn in the city limits blew my mind.
Don river, lake, Bathurst, Davenport. I say Davenport as it’s literally down the hill ( down town)
So you're using the old lake Iroquois shoreline as the north boundary, but the thing is that shoreline swings to the NE at Avenue Rd. So it means that Rosedale is part of the downtown
I’ll accept it.
A lot of maps use the Rosedale Valley as a marker, then perhaps Ramsden Park is a satisfying line, before picking up Davenport/Iroquois west of Avenue.
Yorkdale has historically been considered downtown. It sure ain't midtown.
I think to redefine downtown we'd need to see more aggressive zoning for high rises outside the tradition boundaries that is still directly adjacent to downtown.
The older part of a city is generally defined as the downtown section. Just going by history (every single city has a downtown where it originated from).
The original 10 blocks of Toronto were within Church Street, Adelaide Street, Berkeley Street, and Front Street.
Yup, that's what I was talking about. It's grown since 75 years however. Lol
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2018/pg/bgrd/backgroundfile-114236.pdf
Bathurst-Bloor-Jarvis-lake That’s the line to me. And even Bathurst is a bit west but Spadina is too east and definitely inside the core.
So the Annex, Yorkville is considered midtown?
I consider them both to be their own things honestly… just not really part of “downtown”. Just like I don’t consider the distillery district or liberty as anything but their own areas. To me midtown is Y+E centered maybe davisville to blythwood ravine, mt pleasant to avenue. I consider all to be in old Toronto however.
I am sitting in a SB looking at downtown North York’s Mel Lastman Square, having a dark roast before getting on the subway to go to the real downtown around the Eaton Centre and Nathan Phillips Square. Toronto born ( back then York County) and mostly bred.
When the buildings are big and the roads are small
One of those inflammatory but harmless questions
G&M paywall so can't see what the article says or is about. "Downtown" is an antiquated phrase. Used to mean business center at some point in time but now that businesses can spread far and wide across a city it's become less and less meaningful. You can still call the old business center downtown though, even if it has lost its original meaning.
Anything south of eglinton is downtown I live in north york :cries
For me, downtown ends where the municipality of York starts, that alley directly north of St. Clair. Everything south of that has a Toronto feel. Ossington is the western border, and DVP is the east.
C'mon. Anything north of St. Clair is Northern Ontario.
Queens Quay to Bloor and Jarvis to Bathurst To me that’s downtown.
South of St. Clair, except if the person talking lives north of St. Clair, then it's always juuuuuust north of wherever they happen to live.
Hell to me midtown is bloor st Been living in North Toronto since 1970 Which everyone calls midtown now
In the old days, the 1970's, "Downtown" for me was Yonge Street from Queen to Bloor. It was vibrant and fun, with lots of little shops that were locally famous, like Master John's for boots, House of Lords for haircuts, The Gasworks for a cold beer, Sam the Record Man for albums. There were a ton of owner-operated restaurants. Now it's dead and corporate. Boring as fuck.
Are we asking about drawing lines for a congestion zone?
Nah, if they're doing that they'll use high park, the rail corridor to the north, and the DVP. That perimeter only has a few dozen points of access to control. Think U of T published a study on it.
What is "North America" anyway?
Bloor, the Don, the lake, University.
Bloor, DVP, lake, Ossington Bloor to Eglinton is mid town.
In my opinion downtown is an out-dated and dare I say western construct. In a real metropolis, the entire city would be downtown with high density of businesses, houses and transit. I think its a mistake to centralize everything into a small area of the city because it creates so much traffic and challenging logistics.
Outdated for sure, but... _western_? The concept of a central commercial district or market square is pretty common around the world. Maybe you could argue that western cultures have a specific infatuation with "downtown", or a very specific definition, but at it's core a downtown is just a modern implementation of an ancient concept.
I meant that it is very obsessed concept in western countries.
Even much denser cities still have centres of business activity usually called downtown.
Everyone keeps saying lake as the southern border, but anything south of Front street feels more like “hell” than downtown to me.
Really? St Lawrence, one of the nicest neighbourhoods in downtown, is South of Front.
That bloody highway though. I go to the waterfront less often than I might, because of having to negotiate that fucking hellscape of pickup trucks
That’s not the highway, that’s lakeshore. You hate lakeshore. As pedestrians we don’t interact with the highway downtown because it’s raised.
That’s true, I only ever head south if I’m on a bikeshare. Walking under the gardiner is unpleasant to say the least.
If you ask this question in hamilton. The answer is "anything off the mountain" How it works for cities that don't have a clear cut "down" part of the city I've never understood.
Downtown is where the TTC bus map says it is. [https://map-of-toronto.com/img/1200/toronto-bus-map.jpg](https://map-of-toronto.com/img/1200/toronto-bus-map.jpg)
I consider the south border to be Front St. And not the lake.
So the CN tower and Skydome aren't downtown?
lol why
As a suburbanite, I say high park to don river, DuPont to the lake. If theres streetcars, it’s downtown.
2lane traffic with street parking, street cars,bikes on sidewalk, methhead, homeless
Everything south of Steeles.
Yonge and Dundas. Then 10 kms North ,East , West and South to the lake.
That's the entire subway line. There is no chance that Kipling and Queensway or Danforth and Warden are "downtown." My definition is taller than it is wide because of the Don Valley puts a hard stop to it, but even Rosedale, Trinity-Bellwoods etc. are out for me. Lake Ontario, Kensington, Yorkville, and Jarvis are my approximate boundaries, and those are definitely broader than I would have said a decade ago.
Used to be anything south of Boor and Yonge. Now there’s nothing. All sanitized.
Bathurst Bloor Jarvis Front is where I landed. My partner wanted: Bathurst Bloor Yonge Front. Bathurst is to Spadina what Jarvis is to Yonge. We both agreed Lakefront space/community is separate from downtown.
Where parking , traffic is terrible and where a lot of resources is centralized
What a laughably carbrained view of the city. Are you a person or a car?
Person who do not have the privilege to live in dT
I gave up the privilege of a car in the burbs so I could afford to live downtown.
Nowadays a 1 bdr in Mississauga is the near the same as in downtown anyways lmao
Great. I read the whole thing and will never get that time back.
Let's just agree that downtown isn't real and we can move on with our lives.