Exactly. Why sow doubt on a book that has yet to see the light of day. I think that Vallee has enough prior experience in the field to take all available information into consideration before jumping to conclusions. If not, then if anyone has information to dispute what Vallee has to say then let's all discuss it. I will personally be very surprised if Valee conflates a munitions incident with the possible crashing of a UFO/UAP. But who knows, maybe he will be found to be mistaken. We'll see.
No, definitely a conspiracy. I am obviously a disinformation agent working to further the interests of the deep state lol.
Or just I found a curious echo of the "Trinity UFO" incident and thought it would be relevant to see what this community of curious minds made of it.
This is a good response, but remember our disinfo agent training!! Even joking about actually being a disinfo agent is frowned upon. When confronted with “the” accusation, you need to immediately find an area of commonality (rule # 339) and then, like we practiced...extrapolate and exploit the shit out of it!
This is sort of thing is not unheard of. Distant childhood memories are likely to be part confabulation, part conflation, and maybe some core of reality. I don't think they are at all reliable.
We came across a similar problem when investigating [a supposed UFO crash in 1947 on the Plains of San Agustin](https://aerial-phenomenon.org/new-mexico-expedition/). There was a crash near that very spot, but it was in 1945 and it was a trainer aircraft. We traced the some of the debris (a very ordinary I-beam) found there to that same model aircraft. The Army did show up at the site to recover the pilot's body and aircraft wreckage.
The primary witness would have been 5 in 1947, and only 3 when the plan crash took place.
That's one of the biggest problems I see for this and related cases. The people were so young and retelling their stories in their 70s and 80s. Who can remember what took place when they were 5,7 or 9? especially when they reach their advanced years.
Yeah seriously, there's things I remember in perfect detail from when I was 4 because they were massively important events, but if you ask me what I did last weekend I'm not sure I would be able to tell you
It's too bad they have locked it up on an "Amazon only" deal. Such a disappointing trend in the UFO publishing community. Amazon holds way too much power over the book market in particular, and the entire market in general.
I would like to buy the book, but for the above reasons, I'm not going to. (And I'm a book junkie, with dozens of UFO books so far, and building my library still.)
Interesting to keep in mind, but his track record doesn't suggest he would pick up an ancient cold case just to fall for something this obvious.
Having actually read a couple Vallée books, I was impressed by how often he debunks or finds hoaxes or BS. So often that I can't even recall specific incidents he takes as credible.
I am not encouraged by the metal thingy I have seen pictured, though, it looks like a cast aluminum piece from mid century. Like the base of Herman Miller furniture.
But until the book is out it's nonsense to jump to the conclusion that he's lost his marbles.
Non hyperadvanced extraterrestrials is obviously more likely when looking at this at facevalue, but there have been extraordinary events that have happened in the past. I would need to see the evidence before reaching a conclusion and writing this off as being a bomb that killed some people 50 miles away.
It's worth investigating a possible link here, but Padilla is a not-uncommon sir name with nearly a quarter million Padilla's in Mexico alone. I'm sure a handful of unrelated Padillas migrated north of the border over the years. And the house exploding along with the family is quite a divergent version of the story from just quietly watching the military recover an object out in the distance over a period of days. I'm not saying these things can't be related but you need a little more than what we have at the moment to link them in my opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_most\_common\_surnames\_in\_North\_America
Really great find. I appreciate your analysis. This is a very compelling explanation for the Trinity UFO narrative, and I’m disappointed to see that Valle did not address this possibility at all in the book.
Edit: Even if this incident and the Trinity UFO incident are not sufficiently similar to convince the average reader of the possibility you suggest, the fact of this incident alone should raise the specter of doubt. Certainly, it shows that there were ongoing military activities at the test site that were spilling over into the immediate surroundings and that everyday folks were finding objects attributable to our military as a result.
Jacques Vallee has always looked stupid to me. The Padilla Ranch 1945 debris that I’m looking at is so obvious not ET its not even funny. If this was such a legit case why has no one heard of it before? Witness testimony in this case seems pretty shaky, I usually tend to want to believe them.
Yep. I just came across this story. The piece of metal looks like something from an old pressure cooker. Or some kind of hatch lever.
It looks completely down to earth and man made.
It could be from a crashed V2 I suppose (?) That also sounds like the wreckage too (Blossom Project with moneys). It would be later than 1945 though.
Update.
The "alien object" is a Windmill Tailbone with some extra pieces welded to it. Not from any kind of craft. Alien or terrestrial.
https://www.gguuxuong.com/index.php?main\_page=product\_info&products\_id=4025
Care to address any of the reports / interviews already published by Paola Harris on the topic and the similarities with the report I found? I'll wait.
Like I said we are no match for you and your mighty internet. similarities you say? well shit, I guess you know far more about this than J Vallee, a well respected and experienced researcher, who actually takes the trouble to visit the places he talks about and also meet the people he writes about face to face. Your armchair isn't going to get an indent in it if you leave the house though, so you best snuggle down and keep surfing.
Good find. I too find many elements of this new crash story troubling and unbelievable. The explosion at the Padilla Ranch seems too closely related and could well prove to be a misremembering of events. Perhaps Vallee and Harris simply missed this related story. I'll wait to see what's revealed in their upcoming book, but so far I fear Vallee's reputation may suffer a damaging blow if this case doesn't stand up.
How so?
Edit : The Reme Baca / Jose Padilla story was apparently first told to journalist Ben Moffett, a childhood acquaintance of Baca's, who published an article in the Sirocco Mountain Mail in 2003.
The official report (about a different Padilla ranch in a different town) I quoted above was published 60 years earlier in 1946. Just in case the Padilla family started talking about downed UFOs?
None of the characteristics of disinformation here. Disinformers tell you mostly what you want to hear, and then sneak in a few things that you can neither verify or disconfirm.
Go read Project Beta.
I was speaking specifically to the new normal of painting non-UAP events as confirmed UAP encounters. The "pyramid" NV video comes to mind.
The fact of the matter is we have one faction that seems irked by the fact they haven't been read into the USAPs involving this phenomenon (UAPs). That is what seems to be driving this new disclosure movement, atleast from an outsider's view.
See: "Wilson memo", which ironically and non-coincidentally involves Eric Davis.
The ranch house was just a 15 x 18 foot adobe structure of which one wall was left standing. All the occupants mentioned above required hospital treatment including amputations, skin grafts and full body casts.
It's all there in the report to Congress:
https://books.google.fr/books?id=Lww7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA51-IA150&dq=padilla+ranch+1945+%22san+antonio%22&hl=fr&source=gbs\_toc\_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q=padilla%20ranch%201945%20%22san%20antonio%22&f=false
🤦🏼♂️. I read the entire report. I'm speaking of the Padilla Ranch crash retrieval story. You're Saying that Paola Harris, Vallée, and Mellon got it wrong, and you're saying this report is an official explanation of what actually occurred on a "Padilla Ranch" near Belen, NM.
Well, it's at least worth a consideration?
Look, of all the dozens of alleged UFO crash that took place in the 1940s in New Mexico, it's just common sense that at least some of them were bombs or crashed military aircraft.
The couldn't possibly all have been alien saucers. It wouldn't make any sense.
There is, at least to some degree, an established urban legend during that time, with repeating patterns.
Just look at Cape Girardeu and Aztec. They're both starring a Baptist priest giving last rites to the alien corpses.
Now I'm not saying all of them aren't true. I think it's likely that one crash, the original one, happened and was the source for all the other myths.
Is this now the original crash? It could very well be.
But it could also be just another saucer crash in New Mexico, starring childlike Greys and military cleaning everything up with great mystery.
Vallee and Mellon are human, they can make mistakes.
UFO researchers lie often and make things up to suit their narrative. Especially shifting dates so that nothing coincides with a V2 rocket launch from White Sands nearby.
Roswell was just tin foil (not even a crash) and then 40 years later bodies and a crash suddenly were inserted to the story by researcher selling books and getting TV appearances.
Stanton Friedman often said things like "it does not make sense!" which is the "Chewbacca argument" (see South Park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV6NoNkDGsU))
I have read some of your assertions, which are entirely without basis or facts to back them up. Pretty ironic that you proceed to call people like Jacques Vallée, Elizondo, Mellon, Eric Davis, etc. liars. Pretty easy to do for an armchair researcher. You're ignoring thousands of declassified documents, leaked documents, witness testimony, etc. Typical skeptic who only wants to look at a tiny portion of facts to suit their preconceived notions of reality.
Where is any actual evidence of aliens?
**Monkeys in the wreckage of V2s is an undeniable fact of stuff that could be found in 1940s New Mexico desert. (project Blossom and the 'Alberts')**
These monkeys were collected from wreckage in the desert and were indeed taken to Holloman Lab (Roswell AFB) *these monkeys existed as an indisputable fact and were "non-human bodies".*
People like Stanton et al gloss over this as it is an inconvenient fact to their alien narrative. Witnesses like Glenn Dennis' "mysterious nurse" appear never to have existed. Glenn Dennis never saw the "non-human bodies" and his drawing look like monkeys.
People who actually knew they were monkeys would never approach a UFO researcher. Even if they did then the researcher just ignores the evidence because they want aliens not dead monkeys.
There is Nasa docs available that confirm monkeys existed at Holloman labs along with nose cones of V2 rockets. These nose cones easily correlate with at least what Dennis describes as canoe like metal.
"... Holloman provided all this and laboratory space besides. The final preparation of the nose cone took place at Holloman rather than at White Sands Proving Ground."
[https://history.nasa.gov/afspbio/part1.htm](https://history.nasa.gov/afspbio/part1.htm)
There have been some people who survived such things because they were so close to the blast. If you are a few feet or metres further away then the effects can be more devastating.
Well, at least this charade shall beest ov'r lief, then
***
^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.)
Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`
We should read the book and get all of the facts first before reaching a conclusion.
Exactly. Why sow doubt on a book that has yet to see the light of day. I think that Vallee has enough prior experience in the field to take all available information into consideration before jumping to conclusions. If not, then if anyone has information to dispute what Vallee has to say then let's all discuss it. I will personally be very surprised if Valee conflates a munitions incident with the possible crashing of a UFO/UAP. But who knows, maybe he will be found to be mistaken. We'll see.
This is one of many Vallee-critical posts being posted today. Coincidence?
No, definitely a conspiracy. I am obviously a disinformation agent working to further the interests of the deep state lol. Or just I found a curious echo of the "Trinity UFO" incident and thought it would be relevant to see what this community of curious minds made of it.
This is a good response, but remember our disinfo agent training!! Even joking about actually being a disinfo agent is frowned upon. When confronted with “the” accusation, you need to immediately find an area of commonality (rule # 339) and then, like we practiced...extrapolate and exploit the shit out of it!
This is sort of thing is not unheard of. Distant childhood memories are likely to be part confabulation, part conflation, and maybe some core of reality. I don't think they are at all reliable. We came across a similar problem when investigating [a supposed UFO crash in 1947 on the Plains of San Agustin](https://aerial-phenomenon.org/new-mexico-expedition/). There was a crash near that very spot, but it was in 1945 and it was a trainer aircraft. We traced the some of the debris (a very ordinary I-beam) found there to that same model aircraft. The Army did show up at the site to recover the pilot's body and aircraft wreckage. The primary witness would have been 5 in 1947, and only 3 when the plan crash took place.
That's one of the biggest problems I see for this and related cases. The people were so young and retelling their stories in their 70s and 80s. Who can remember what took place when they were 5,7 or 9? especially when they reach their advanced years.
Ask an older person - they can usually remember significant events from childhood better than something from last year.
Much too unreliable.
Yeah seriously, there's things I remember in perfect detail from when I was 4 because they were massively important events, but if you ask me what I did last weekend I'm not sure I would be able to tell you
people are sick of these subs being used as an advertising forum
People are sick of brand new accounts criticizing stalwarts of the academic analysis of the phenomenon.
It's too bad they have locked it up on an "Amazon only" deal. Such a disappointing trend in the UFO publishing community. Amazon holds way too much power over the book market in particular, and the entire market in general. I would like to buy the book, but for the above reasons, I'm not going to. (And I'm a book junkie, with dozens of UFO books so far, and building my library still.)
> read the book [Found the Time-Life "Mysteries of the Unknown" guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV79bhwI-94)
I agree, what I'm interested in is the materials that have been analysed.
Interesting to keep in mind, but his track record doesn't suggest he would pick up an ancient cold case just to fall for something this obvious. Having actually read a couple Vallée books, I was impressed by how often he debunks or finds hoaxes or BS. So often that I can't even recall specific incidents he takes as credible. I am not encouraged by the metal thingy I have seen pictured, though, it looks like a cast aluminum piece from mid century. Like the base of Herman Miller furniture. But until the book is out it's nonsense to jump to the conclusion that he's lost his marbles.
but i mean what's more likely, honestly? A.) hyperadvanced extraterrestrials B.) not hyperadvanced extraterrestrials
A.
Non hyperadvanced extraterrestrials is obviously more likely when looking at this at facevalue, but there have been extraordinary events that have happened in the past. I would need to see the evidence before reaching a conclusion and writing this off as being a bomb that killed some people 50 miles away.
50 miles is 80.47 km
fair enough, a congressional report like this with multiple corroborating witnesses is enough for me. ymmv
It's worth investigating a possible link here, but Padilla is a not-uncommon sir name with nearly a quarter million Padilla's in Mexico alone. I'm sure a handful of unrelated Padillas migrated north of the border over the years. And the house exploding along with the family is quite a divergent version of the story from just quietly watching the military recover an object out in the distance over a period of days. I'm not saying these things can't be related but you need a little more than what we have at the moment to link them in my opinion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_most\_common\_surnames\_in\_North\_America
Really great find. I appreciate your analysis. This is a very compelling explanation for the Trinity UFO narrative, and I’m disappointed to see that Valle did not address this possibility at all in the book. Edit: Even if this incident and the Trinity UFO incident are not sufficiently similar to convince the average reader of the possibility you suggest, the fact of this incident alone should raise the specter of doubt. Certainly, it shows that there were ongoing military activities at the test site that were spilling over into the immediate surroundings and that everyday folks were finding objects attributable to our military as a result.
We must wait for the book first before we make conclussions, but really this is a great find. Briliant job OP.
Call me crazy, gullible, but I trust Vallee. I could be completely wrong, he could be completely wrong, we shall see.
FWIW: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54e2719ee4b014cdbc426c33/t/59eabb25268b969e4ed1a346/1508555602083/7\_UFO\_Crashes.pdf
Jacques Vallee has always looked stupid to me. The Padilla Ranch 1945 debris that I’m looking at is so obvious not ET its not even funny. If this was such a legit case why has no one heard of it before? Witness testimony in this case seems pretty shaky, I usually tend to want to believe them.
Yep. I just came across this story. The piece of metal looks like something from an old pressure cooker. Or some kind of hatch lever. It looks completely down to earth and man made. It could be from a crashed V2 I suppose (?) That also sounds like the wreckage too (Blossom Project with moneys). It would be later than 1945 though.
Update. The "alien object" is a Windmill Tailbone with some extra pieces welded to it. Not from any kind of craft. Alien or terrestrial. https://www.gguuxuong.com/index.php?main\_page=product\_info&products\_id=4025
Sure, because Vallee is no match for you and your trusty internet.
Care to address any of the reports / interviews already published by Paola Harris on the topic and the similarities with the report I found? I'll wait.
Like I said we are no match for you and your mighty internet. similarities you say? well shit, I guess you know far more about this than J Vallee, a well respected and experienced researcher, who actually takes the trouble to visit the places he talks about and also meet the people he writes about face to face. Your armchair isn't going to get an indent in it if you leave the house though, so you best snuggle down and keep surfing.
As I said, I'll wait.
https://fallacyinlogic.com/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/
Good find. I too find many elements of this new crash story troubling and unbelievable. The explosion at the Padilla Ranch seems too closely related and could well prove to be a misremembering of events. Perhaps Vallee and Harris simply missed this related story. I'll wait to see what's revealed in their upcoming book, but so far I fear Vallee's reputation may suffer a damaging blow if this case doesn't stand up.
Disinformation vol. 2021
How so? Edit : The Reme Baca / Jose Padilla story was apparently first told to journalist Ben Moffett, a childhood acquaintance of Baca's, who published an article in the Sirocco Mountain Mail in 2003. The official report (about a different Padilla ranch in a different town) I quoted above was published 60 years earlier in 1946. Just in case the Padilla family started talking about downed UFOs?
None of the characteristics of disinformation here. Disinformers tell you mostly what you want to hear, and then sneak in a few things that you can neither verify or disconfirm. Go read Project Beta.
I was speaking specifically to the new normal of painting non-UAP events as confirmed UAP encounters. The "pyramid" NV video comes to mind. The fact of the matter is we have one faction that seems irked by the fact they haven't been read into the USAPs involving this phenomenon (UAPs). That is what seems to be driving this new disclosure movement, atleast from an outsider's view. See: "Wilson memo", which ironically and non-coincidentally involves Eric Davis.
Numerous Vallee-critical posts today across numerous subs.
Looks like one faction doesn't like one or more aspects of Vellée's new book.
So he touched the bomb to the floor and completely demolished the house, yet only suffered injuries?
The ranch house was just a 15 x 18 foot adobe structure of which one wall was left standing. All the occupants mentioned above required hospital treatment including amputations, skin grafts and full body casts.
"Yes, let me drag an unexploded bomb home and smack the detonator onto the ground." Incredible!
It's all there in the report to Congress: https://books.google.fr/books?id=Lww7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA51-IA150&dq=padilla+ranch+1945+%22san+antonio%22&hl=fr&source=gbs\_toc\_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q=padilla%20ranch%201945%20%22san%20antonio%22&f=false
You're on a UFO sub telling us to take the congressional report of a supposed "UAP crash retrieval" as gospel? That's rich.
That' not what it is. You obviously didn't read word one of it.
🤦🏼♂️. I read the entire report. I'm speaking of the Padilla Ranch crash retrieval story. You're Saying that Paola Harris, Vallée, and Mellon got it wrong, and you're saying this report is an official explanation of what actually occurred on a "Padilla Ranch" near Belen, NM.
Well, it's at least worth a consideration? Look, of all the dozens of alleged UFO crash that took place in the 1940s in New Mexico, it's just common sense that at least some of them were bombs or crashed military aircraft. The couldn't possibly all have been alien saucers. It wouldn't make any sense. There is, at least to some degree, an established urban legend during that time, with repeating patterns. Just look at Cape Girardeu and Aztec. They're both starring a Baptist priest giving last rites to the alien corpses. Now I'm not saying all of them aren't true. I think it's likely that one crash, the original one, happened and was the source for all the other myths. Is this now the original crash? It could very well be. But it could also be just another saucer crash in New Mexico, starring childlike Greys and military cleaning everything up with great mystery. Vallee and Mellon are human, they can make mistakes.
UFO researchers lie often and make things up to suit their narrative. Especially shifting dates so that nothing coincides with a V2 rocket launch from White Sands nearby. Roswell was just tin foil (not even a crash) and then 40 years later bodies and a crash suddenly were inserted to the story by researcher selling books and getting TV appearances. Stanton Friedman often said things like "it does not make sense!" which is the "Chewbacca argument" (see South Park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV6NoNkDGsU))
I have read some of your assertions, which are entirely without basis or facts to back them up. Pretty ironic that you proceed to call people like Jacques Vallée, Elizondo, Mellon, Eric Davis, etc. liars. Pretty easy to do for an armchair researcher. You're ignoring thousands of declassified documents, leaked documents, witness testimony, etc. Typical skeptic who only wants to look at a tiny portion of facts to suit their preconceived notions of reality.
Where is any actual evidence of aliens? **Monkeys in the wreckage of V2s is an undeniable fact of stuff that could be found in 1940s New Mexico desert. (project Blossom and the 'Alberts')** These monkeys were collected from wreckage in the desert and were indeed taken to Holloman Lab (Roswell AFB) *these monkeys existed as an indisputable fact and were "non-human bodies".* People like Stanton et al gloss over this as it is an inconvenient fact to their alien narrative. Witnesses like Glenn Dennis' "mysterious nurse" appear never to have existed. Glenn Dennis never saw the "non-human bodies" and his drawing look like monkeys. People who actually knew they were monkeys would never approach a UFO researcher. Even if they did then the researcher just ignores the evidence because they want aliens not dead monkeys. There is Nasa docs available that confirm monkeys existed at Holloman labs along with nose cones of V2 rockets. These nose cones easily correlate with at least what Dennis describes as canoe like metal. "... Holloman provided all this and laboratory space besides. The final preparation of the nose cone took place at Holloman rather than at White Sands Proving Ground." [https://history.nasa.gov/afspbio/part1.htm](https://history.nasa.gov/afspbio/part1.htm)
There have been some people who survived such things because they were so close to the blast. If you are a few feet or metres further away then the effects can be more devastating.
Well, at least this charade will be over soon, then.
Well, at least this charade shall beest ov'r lief, then *** ^(I am a bot and I swapp'd some of thy words with Shakespeare words.) Commands: `!ShakespeareInsult`, `!fordo`, `!optout`