I gotta watch the match but highlights I seen of the German goals Chris Richardâs looked completely turned around, and so did Dest on one of them.
Hopefully fans can now stop over hyping Richardâs, right now dude isnât very good and shouldnât be seeing 1st team minutes either for club or country.
Agree, would love to see a serious tactical breakdown. I think we defended in *three* different ways throughout the game. We started out for the first 20â in a version of the 442 that we played against England but with a weird wrinkle I donât totally understand (see [this thread](https://x.com/bob_morocco/status/1713272810108506253?s=46&t=vLUe1pgWSc_w_lyk5Bs2xQ)). Then we switched to our standard 433 defensive shape for the rest of the first half. Then I donât understand what we did in the second half, but as you say it looked different from anything weâve done before.
Instead of that, why not do something like dripping the 4-3-3 for a 4-3-1-2 with Pulisic as the 10, and both Pepi and Balogun up too. Balogun gs played in a two striker system and can assist well.
Everyone argues with one over the other. Why not both? This is what friendlies are both. Tactical changes to get the best 11, but also the best tactical grouping of 11.
Doesnât mean we stay 4-3-1-2 the whole game. Once Pepi or Balogun are subbed off⊠just go back to the 4-3-1-2.
Because honestlyâŠ. Iâd rather have Reyna or Weah off the bench running against tired legs. Weâve done that in the past and always seen an IMMEDIATE difference.
While I agree with most critiques, in the end what one would expect to happen happened. We lost against a better team. We arenât at that level yetâŠitâs gonna take another generation or two.
BUT⊠we played them straight up. This is different from years past.
I would rather lose 3-1 trying to play our game than park the bus and tie/lose narrowly.
Weah and Pulisic just jump off the screen with their speed. Pulisic with club minutes looks different. Sloppy. That is an intense amount of talent out there for us, disappointed with the result, thought we'd win.
with the ball at his feet Dest is has the quality to be a locked in starter at the best teams in the world.
when he is tasked with defensive positioning he genuinely reminds me of some of the guys on my rec team.
He is such a liability. On one of their goals, Ream, the closest defender to Dest, pulled up while Dest just stood there keeping Fulkrug onside. Why? I felt bad for Richards who took the brunt of the blame.
LOL at this being downvoted. US Soccer must have an intern out there with hundreds of accounts.
Iâve never met one fan in real life that thinks Berhalter should be our manager. Not one.
Gregg has no idea on how to utilize Balogun. This dude is gonna be wasted under Gregg's tenure and it's gonna be excruciating to watch. Pulisic despite the goal, was pretty average when compared to Musah and Weah who were on fire with their fast pace and ability to dribble past players.
5 games! Itâs still reactionary, but itâs starting to get a little concerning. But it sounds like weâre working on this in practice and the chemistry just needs to improve.
The Ghana game will be more interesting to me. Ghana is a country that we were an underdog against in the past but we should be able to beat with this team if weâve really improved.
my favorite part of the game was when multiple of our players put the German wunderkid Wirtz in a spin cycle. Weah absolutely blazed by him on one run. Musah megged him. Both times were hilarious. Somebody's gotta clip those up so we can bully Germany fans later once we get over today's L
The interim was literally running Gregg's exact system. Also this is a friendly against one of the most talented teams in the world. Like I'm not happy about a loss, but we were competitive and did some good and some bad.
My favorite thing about The Gregg Berhalter era is how ambiguous it can be. It can be what you want it to be.
2019 Gold Cup: Put up all time bad performances in the tune ups against Jamaica and Venezuela. Then you win 5 straight before losing a hard fought final to a team that was better than us
2019 Nations League: Put up an all time bad performance in Toronto, before Curb stomping Canada by 3 goals and winning the group to advance.
2021: Nations League, you win both games and lift a trophy despite not looking particularly great in either game.
2021: Gold Cup. Win 5 straight games while looking not great in 4 of them, and then top it off with a fantastic performance against our arch rival despite using a B team against their A team.
2 trophies, Gregg is undeniably good right? Well that takes us to
2021/22 qualifying: We undeniably underachieve finishing in a tie for 3rd despite being the most talented team. There's still highs like dos a cero, our best ever Azteca performance, 4-1 in San Pedro Sula, Crushing Panama by 4 goals.
Pre World Cup: Crush Morocco and draw Uruguay? No problem there's a Japan loss and Saudi draw to negate that
World Cup: Disappointing result in Game 1, over achieving Game 2, get the job done in game 3, and then lose to a far better team in game 4. Leading to a good enough but not magical round of 16 exit.
The guy has a remarkable ability to hit par. People who want to like him can point to plenty of highs and "yeah but" every low. Vice versa for the people who want to hate him.
I can picture the Copa America now. We'll probably be seeded and be the best team in our group with home field advantage. We'll top it while not playing amazing, before playing a decent but not great South American team like Paraguay in the quarters. We'll eek out a thriller , before getting a semifinal reality check against Brazil or Argentina.
The pro Gregg people will say "Boom, semifinal ", while the anti Gregg people will point out we were favored in every game before getting crushed when we played an actual power
And the same interest arguments will ensue into 2026
Getting to the semi-final in a Copa America is something that many rationally-minded fans would celebrate, even those from nations with a better team than ours. You can keep moving the goalposts on him, as long as he gets the credit he deserves. Don't forget that the players have and will continue to make game-losing errors. Over the years, GGG has taken a lot of heat that deserved to be directed at the players. Time to stop coddling our golden boys, they're grown men now. They can handle some accountability.
Simply meeting expectations, in all honesty.
Which leads to a fun philosophical (I guess) discussion.
We, generally speaking, want to exceed expectations. So when we simply meet them, did we fail? So is the expectation to actually succeed expectations, thus raising the level of expectations?
Thereâs no oxymoron at all, actuallyâŠ
Statistical vs emotional expectations donât make any sense either.
People set an expectation, with either facts or emotions, then still a large section gets upset when itâs not exceeded. Regardless of what logic they used to set it.
Not just Berhalter. This is basically the story of every USMNT manager weâve had in the last 30 years. Itâs because weâre essentially a good but not great program thatâs just talented enough to put up a fight in challenging situations but not quite talented enough to consistently beat the best teams (or dance through weaker teams when weâre not totally focused). Berhalter has his strengths and weaknesses, but the problems here are bigger than the coach.
That reality check against previous World Cup winners, Argentina, and the always top 5 nation, Brazil, sounds likeâŠ.reality.
We should accept it and honestly enjoy it.
I had a thought. People love to blame the coach, but if you just traded coaches, would the result have been different? If Nagelsmann coached the US and Berhalter coached Germany would we have gotten a result?
We have a coach that no other Top 50 nation would even consider for the national team job. We are at an extreme coaching disadvantage versus most any decent team.
And, yes, Nagelsmann coached circles around Berhalter and we would have had a chance if the roles were reversed.
Nagelsmann is arguably the best national team coach in the game right now, having him would certainly improve our team. But Germany would still be large favorites.
ayo what are you even talking about lol. The dude has played exactly one game as a national team manager.
"best NT manager in the game"? how bout we wait and see first? maybe he is, but I don't see how you can judge that off of one friendly.
I just meant âbest manager who is currently managing a national team.â Guy was just at Bayern, heâs a top flight manager, not many of those at NTs.
I mean I think so but thatâs more because I rate Naglesmann pretty highly. Even today he clearly made some changes that improved his teams overall performance
Thereâs a talent gap to be sure, especially after our first 11. Our shape changed when Reyna came out, and De La Torre didnât offer much in the midfield. Meanwhile, they brought on Goretzka, Havertz, Brandt, Sule, etc. all those guys would walk into our 11 and instantly be our best players lol. Having a healthy Adams, Reyna, Robinson, etc changes that a bit, but weâre paper thin, especially along the back line
nah, honestly, I think the difference on the night was just mental mistakes and tackling....that first half was pretty good and we fell apart the second half. We aren't where we want to be so there's still work to be done. Gana is good too so hopefully they show up.
Yeah. A lot of the difference between first half and second came down to in the first half we were successfully playing through their pressure. In the second half we were not.
When is Greg going to figure out that we canât play 433 against big opponents. We need to play our strengthâŠand possession and defending against strong pressure is definitely not it.
A 4-3-3 can be any number of things depending on who you play in it and what their roles are. It didnât work today because with Adams out, we donât have a holding midfielder who can cover for the shortcomings of our back line, and our backline itself is in a transition phase where our best CB is getting old but our younger ones arenât ready. Combine those problems with an attack-minded outside back in Dest whoâs not a good defender and a cohort of inexperienced outside back alternatives (Scally, Lund, and Jones), and you get a team thatâs incredibly vulnerable defensively no matter what formation you play.
Thatâs not true at all. A 433 is a very offensive formation and we packed it with a lot of offensive players that arenât good at defending. Thatâs on Greg.
A formation like a 442 would have been better against Germany and maybe even a 451 to take control of the midfield. The formations make a big difference.
Whatever the formation, you need players who are comfortable in it and have the skillsets to make it work. You can play a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1, but if the best midfielders in your player pool are all used to getting forward and having a more defensive-minded guy behind them to cover, the extra numbers that you get in the midfield are only going to help you so much. And by contrast, if you stick with a 4-3-3 but have a player at the base of that midfield 3 who prioritizes his defensive duties, the formation is going to play differently than a 4â3-3 where everyone gets forward and nobody positions themselves properly when the ball turns over. Itâs not that formations donât matter, they absolutely do. But the bigger issue for us right now is personnel. Weâve got a fair amount of talent, but itâs unevenly distributed by position and thatâs leaving holes/inconsistency in key roles.
He have plenty of defensive midfielders that are good but Greg chose to play the offensive midfielders to go along with his formation. I agreeâŠwe have a good talent pool but Greg isnât using them well enough.
You mean, Johnny, who has barely climbed the depth chart since joining us? Or Delaney, basically just joined the program? The lack of depth at the defensive midfield position has been an issue for a while now. It wasnât going to get better in time for this game.
This post makes no sense whatsoever.
A 433 doesn't require any particular style of play; it's probably the most versatile formation.
And what would you do against strong pressure? Not defend?
433 is like putting 'other' on a form. the. number of people who think the 433 is specifically where players play on the field the whole game is concerning. As some say here, its about roles. You got 433s that are obvious 4231s. You got your classic inverted fb 3223 build up. Into a 4223 high press back into a 442. Whoever decided that adding a single formation...at least do offense and defense...because then sites will put up one over the other depending on who controls possession...
at least i can say ive seen the exact same thing from fanbases of world-class teams fixating on formation and complaining they didn't play X when they really did play X but no one could be bothered with a heatmap.
Sorry I think thatâs a bit unfair here. It definitely is most often used as an offensive / high pressing formation. An inverted back 325 into a 424 high press back to a 442 block . But depending on opponent it can just be a 4231 in hiding as well. But donât think this was an incorrect statement. Greg just doesnât have his 8s play like 10s. He definitely keeps it conservative.
433 is about as vanilla as possible. It's not inherently offensive at all, and certainly something like a 442 is not necessarily anymore defensive.
It's a friendly. There's absolutely ZERO reason to play a 532 and bog the game down. Even if you increased your chances of winning (which is debateable), you're not learning anything about what your players can do.
Of course a 433 is more offensive. Youâre playing with three forwards up top. A 442 plays only 2 and has 4 midfielders instead of 3, which is typically for more control or defense in the midfield. Obviously, it depends on the players the coach uses in the formation and if they can play the role well. But thatâs entirely on the coach and his vision. thatâs why the poor performance of the team is on Greg for not balancing the team well enough.
Yeah, I mean the goal if you are of the positional persuasion is to have a numerical advantage in the box with 3 forwards and 2 8s making runs against a back 4. If you donât. Itâs a weird choice for sure. I think Greg stopped ready before that part.
There are plenty of 433s that are less offensive than some 442s. Tactics are a hell of a lot more than formations.
And I'd far rather lose this game and try things than play overly defensive and eke out a draw.
It's the difference between a long term strategic plan and the usual fan reactionism.
Bingo.
We learned a lot this game about what individual players can do.
There's a weird focus on tactics by people who don't understand tactics when this game had very little to do with tactics.
There's no reason to play scared in a game that doesn't matter.
>There's no reason to play scared in a game that doesn't matter.
this 1000000000% zero percent chance in a competitive game we play this open. I think of this game as a better version of the mexico friendly in the last cycle
Yep.
I think there was some concerning stuff here. It's not all roses, or really many roses. We didn't play very well, though we did hold our own in spurts.
But in about 90% of friendlies under Berhalter we're running what I would call exaggerated tactics to pressure test stuff, test things out, get people in certain rhythms.
I don't love our passive defense, and I question whether our players are equipped to do it well. But that's also an argument to practice it, because you can't fly at people all the time.
The biggest positive is heâs getting to test it with our best players, Sans TA who was our 2nd most reliable player last cycle anyways so we know what he brings, instead of having to plug something different each game due to 3 game cycles or injuries.
The way the Dutch beat us had little to no similarities to how the Deutsch beat us today. Very different games IMO.
PS: I had to do the Dutch - Deutsch thing when I saw the opening. Sorry lol
Edit: To elaborate after I verified. Dutch gave us possession and were very clinical. Germany today âpepperedâ our goal and controlled possession, especially in the second half.
yep the Dutch were super clinical and punished us. Germany was not clinical at all but the ball fell perfectly for them off deflections multiple times. not sure how anyone can look at any 3 of their goals and act like it was a great play all the way through or tactical brilliance. just 3 lucky bounces with the ball falling right at player's feet for goals
I mean we ran out in a 442 against England. Today, we alternated between a true 443, and a 4231/442 in defense. And tbh, if the 433 is our base formation, we should be trying it against the best opponents to see how we are developing
433 works for us on concacaf opponents. It does not work against teams like Germany or the Netherlands during the World Cup. We need a defensive formation against quality teams.
it didn't work today, yah. But against the Netherlands we had a bunch of mental mistakes from playing our starters too long through the group stage. Like all three goals came from single mistakes (fullbacks and Adams not tracking back).
With Adams healthy I still think the 433 will work for us against bigger opposition, but today just proved Musah isn't ready to play that 6 against the big boys, in my opinion at least
i dont know why the narrative is that we got outcoached, because it was so much worse. Adams, Jedi, Musah were all in the top10 distance covered during the group stage. Weah, Pulisic, dest had also played almost every minute of their 100+ min games with the long injury periods. 400+ min in 10 days. I think they played to make it out of the group. because the alternative would be that they didn't realize how tournaments work.
People just took a poor translation of van Gaal's comments and ran with it. My guess for why that became the narrative is just because people want an easy answer. We lost cuz GGG sucks is an easy answer. It's a lot easier to explain then the coach messed up by not rotating enough in earlier games. Mainly because I think the same people who freak out about that narrative, would have been pissed if we had rotated the players. I would also agree that their first goal was to simply make it out of the group which lead to way too many minutes on the legs of our best players for the Ro16.
Luckily if our players remain healthy we already have 4 midfield starters who are World Cup quality, and can do a lot healthier rotations for Copa and 2026.
I dont like conspiracies in general, but its hard not to think that became the goal following the draw vs wales while everyone was asking where is Gio and Greg knew he needed results. But I've never seen Adams walking out there and it wasn't even the second half. At least it wasn't an opponent we should beat but couldn't because the core 7 players were headed towards heatstoke.
That was Bruce Arena that fucked the U.S. out of the 2018 WC. If they didnât fire Jurgen back in late 2016 the U.S. most likely would have qualified.
What? When Klinsmann got fired, we were dead last in the hex. Arena would have had to win almost every game to get us in. You think Klinsmann was likely to do that after that loss to CR? He had also lost the team entirely after Costa Rica lol, no way he would have got us there. Arena inherited a dumpster fire. Granted, he wasnât great either, but the failure to qualify in 2018 is squarely on Klinsmann as far as managers go
Youâre dead wrong accept the L. Arena all he had to get was a tie a freaking TIE against Trinidad and he failed. Arena is responsible for the biggest U.S. failure in the history of U.S. Soccer
Where was I wrong? Werenât we in dead last when Klinsmann was fired? Blaming it on the guy who came in the last 8 months instead of the guy who had been fucking up for years consecutively is some serious revisionist history lol
Thereâs a reason why you got negative 5 votes lol youâre dead wrong and full of delusion. Fucking up for years? The same manager that led us out of the group of death in the 2014 WC. Finally beating Ghana in a WC after getting eliminated by them in back to back World Cups thanks to your boy Arena and Bradley. Leading the U.S. to the semifinals of the 2016 Copa America. Always playing elite teams away from home unlike Belharter. He raised the bar and delusion fanboys like yourself got triggered by it. L mentality
Germany team that won 2 of its last 7 games. Not the powerhouse of old but still ran through us. Going to be interesting to see if the US can develop over the next 2.5 years
And the wrong hire can demoralize/stabilize a very talented squad, so it cuts both ways.
Iâm all for an improvement in our coaching if one is available and interested, but until then Iâm not willing to roll the dice
First sentence is great to remember. Hiring or rehiring can do this.
Now see thatâs a great shout. Did we improve our coaching staff? Nope. His damn assistant looked a better tactician than him
Lol itâs so funny watching people freak out over gggâs tactics from literally anyone else. Almost like they donât know what theyâre talking about.
Anyone know why we play in a no seats fcs stadium in hartford instead of nyc or boston? Glad we finally played in this part of the country instead of ohio, but it is 12 hours roundtrip by train from manhattan to see this game
Of all the complaints about today, the stadium and crowd is a wild thing to take issue with. The atmosphere was absolutely phenomenal. Sorry it wasnât in your backyard but they set a pretty good bar today.
I think anyone calling for Dests job need to realize what the alternatives are...
I mean Scally was playing his position and doing... Nothing? I think Dest will be fine on his natural side and I think you absolutely have to live with his defense at this point.
I think a bigger question is what is the plan for the CBs moving toward 2026? Is Tim Ream really going to be in that conversation? I love Ream and all he's done but I think you've gotta move into trying to find a CB pairing you can build around for 2026. (if you're putting a gun to my head today and I would say CCV and Richard's would be the front runners).
I think this also shows the technical prowess of a player like Tyler Adams and how important he is.
I also think Reyna was a huge reason why we played so well in the first half and brings a dynamic in the midfield no one else can come close to matching. He was an outlet that relieved pressure so well while moving the ball forward into dynamic positions.
I think the CB pairing and finding a 70 minute role for Reyna are the two biggest questions moving toward 2026.
As someone at the game and watching Gio closely he did zero. Was the worst player on the field the first half. Terrible touches and looked lost.
Dest and Scally did a solid job.
Cool. You are super awesome. I wanted Gio to be good but he wasnât. He was the weakest person on the pitch. Maybe when he is healthy itâll be different. But today he was bad.
Dest should not be on the left.
I'm glad we gave Scally some time on the right. It's good to give him that shot even if the result was basically that we aren't missing much. He was subpar today on defense and showed nothing on offense. It's a tough matchup, but he wasn't good.
But I want a real LB and to keep Dest right side.
Caleb Wiley's growth in Atlanta over the last season has been crazy. He's 18 and he flat shut down Columbus Crew's Yedlin, Nagbe and Rossi in our last game. If he gets a European transfer to a club that pushes his development, I think he'll be in the mix as a back line starter by WC.
Sadly, it feels like Robinson plateaued because of his Achilles injury. Not sure he's the CB of the future, when he looked inevitable before.
I like Wiley, but he did not stop nothing in that game. Stop lying. Columbus crew were rampant in that game and should have scored more. Easily rossi s best game in a crew jersey up to that point. It's not like any of those players had a real 1v1 matchup against wiley as crew have a very fluid system. Yedlin doesn't even play for the crew?
Zardes doesn't play for the crew anymore either. Wiley was alright,he did his part, made a couple blocks in that game. But it wasn't like he shut the crew down on that side like you made it out to be. I do like wiley as prospect, he's shown to be a pretty good player at 18 in the mls which is a good sign. Still got a ways to go as full back and I don't think he is ready for Europe just yet.
I looked at a roster for an old game.
And yes, I didn't say he was a shutdown machine, but he was solid and not at fault on any Crew chances that I recall with 2 (but not 3) players with usmnt starts and 2 midfielders called up to their national teams in this break. At 18 that's a European prospect, I'd love to have him another year, but I don't expect it.
Wiley has the talent to, but I think it's too soon. If I was advising him, I'd tell him to wait not chase the move right now. If the right offer comes, then take it. If not, get another year playing as regular, go to the Olympics, and make a move the next year. If he does leave, He would need to move to a developmental league like Holland or Belgium. Going to the wrong team in the top league hed probably be another George bello. Anyway, what's his contract situation? You're likely to losing Robinson and almeda after this season, the later will generate a big fee. Don't see atl being pressured to sell him.
Yeah. I get why Bello wanted Bundesliga instead of Belgium but he's a cautionary tale for sure. I don't know how much more improvement he'll get in Atlanta though, especially since we'll likely be losing Robinson and replacing Guzman next year. Could go either way.
hahaha exactly. Wiley is *not* a good defender at the moment (observed the same thing at the U23 game the other day)âhe is, however, pretty dang good in the middle and attacking thirds. idk if he projects as a winger long-term, but itâs his better position at the moment
the real one to watch imo is [Baker-Whiting](https://www.reddit.com/r/ussoccer/comments/173libf/backup_leftback_watch_18_yo_reed_bakerwhiting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)âable to play both FB positions effectively, in offensive and defensive phases. good size, technique, mentalityâreally looking forward to his next season
I was really encouraged by that first half. I thought we had some dangerous opportunities. But big turn in the second half.
Biggest weaknesses:
\- Depth is a big issue. Pulisic, Weah, and Reyna are all good creators, but who on the bench can do what they do? Nobody can do what Tyler does as a 6. Our CBs look shaky. Scally holds his own, but there's a big drop off from Dest and Jedi.
\- We need to find better ways to get Balogun involved. Otherwise we are just wasting a tremendously talented player. Until we are using him correctly, we are probably better off with Pepi up top as he fits our current system better.
\- While I like the idea of McKennie/Musah as a double pivot with Reyna as a 10. I think Tyler needs to be in the starting lineups, especially when we are playing better quality teams. We were just missing something without him. His presence masks a lot of our defensive vulnerabilities that we don't even realize until he is missing time. I know he doesn't make the lineup look as sexy on paper, but he needs to start against teams equal or better than us, even if it means sacrificing a bit on offense. Get better soon Tyler!
Koleosho will be a big depth piece if we can convince him. He could give us another pure creator on the wing who can actually create goals, like he's doing for Burnley right now.
We changed shapes because 1) Gio isnât 90â fit and likely wouldnât play 90â in a friendly if he could & 2) his most like-for-like sub (Tillman) is also out injured.
By changing shape, Germany was able to push a bit more forward than usual because our midfield played deeper and then we got overran, in simplest terms.
An alternative wouldâve been to use Aaronson instead of DLT but I think we already know heâs not the Reyna replacement. DLT (& Musah) got tested against a tougher team trying to be a 6 and ultimately did not measure up.
Either way, we were going to sub off Gio for an experiment and I donât think either works.
Maloney or Johnny couldâve been better subs as well, but again, it was all a bit of a test. Maybe they do worse? Maybe they do better? No way to know. It was simply a choice and there wasnât an outright *bad* choice to test.
I wrote this in another comment but wanted to get it here too.
There was a big change to formation (not players). We need to see if it was truly Reyna that made a large difference, or was it the shape and mentality in that second half. At times Reyna was pushed up towards a 2nd striker and we were more narrow in our defensive shape for the attacking 6 players.
If thereâs going to be limited defensive responsibility for Gio, seems to me we could have kept the shape and put anyone in that position. Such as Aaronson or even Pepi.
That also goes if Pulisic is going to have limited defensive responsibility, then a more defensive 8/or another 6 seems like it would be appropriate which is where the game went to
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get in simplest terms.
Gio sat higher most of the time than DLT did. DLT is going to drop deeper defensively. Iâm sure it was part instruction, part thatâs just who the players are.
We are never going to outplay a Germany type team, HOWEVER we need to find a way to start getting results. It may need GGg to adjust his philosophy against tough sides
Dest is a defensive liability without Adams. Just completely lost on how to get back to defend. Might not even be in the starting lineup in a years time. Scally and Jedi are both better on defense than Dest is.
Berhalter is dependent on a healthy Adams for defense. We canât play defense without a strong 6.
> Berhalter is dependent on a healthy Adams for defense. We canât play defense without a strong 6.
To be fair, so are a lot of managers way better than Berhalter. Dependent on a strong 6.
Like this season so far, Man City has won every game Rodri has started (Iâm not counting the glorified friendly in the Community Shield) and Real Madrid has won every game Tchouamendi has started. And they lost every game they havenât played.
6s are important people! lol
I wonât say he was terrible, but his positioning is still questionable at timesâhowever, I think some of that also comes down to general understanding w/ his back-line/midfield that will hopefully improve (aka the reason we need more of these games too)
I'm not freaking out but I still notice a complete lack of intentionality in the final third. The plan remains to play out wide and hope a cross works out for us. I know we're a defensive team but I'd like something a little more planned out than prayerball going forward.
I'm not against crossing. It can be effective when done right. The problem is that we don't have anyone whose particularly good at it and we don't put many guys in the box to receive them. An issue we have is that we lack the creativity and tactics to break down the other team's back line so we sort of just send crosses in because we don't know what else to do
this site should shut down for 24 hours following a game. We have had the consistent and persistent need to create more goal-scoring opportunities. But if you read this reaction to giving up three goals to Germany, apparently, the defense is the priority or the midfield. It is all important but if we for example don't score against Ghana, i look forward to those equality bold opposite claims
haha yes (no i am not disagreeing), i had to scroll down so far to find someone mentioning offense..people are reactionary i get it. but what you mentioned is a reaction to the last 2 years
yeah, im not asking for much but while weah is a good player, he doesnt provide what the modern day winger, usually inverted, provides, low crosses from the midfield tend to be more dangerous. Its a real lack of understanding of the ideal behind a 433 which i believe are the best when used correctly.
The system Berhalter uses is a 433 that tends to sit back and invite opposing pressure with limited pressing outside of our own attacking third. His system seems reliant on good counterattacking and pressing in transition to force costly turnovers. Against well organized back lines we typically struggle because we have little creativity and manpower in the final third. We can't seem to keep possession effectively enough to pull a defense out of shape so we rely on crosses into the box which are rarely effective because of a lack of bodies and the right personnel.
That's the kind of thing that happens when you have the same backline. It isn't as easy as going out and buying a world class CB. These things time more time than in club soccer.
Richards was on slow-mo mode.
but but but the FIFA rankings everyoneđ€âđŸ Gregg in for lifeâ€ïžwe canât possibly upgrade from him!!!
I gotta watch the match but highlights I seen of the German goals Chris Richardâs looked completely turned around, and so did Dest on one of them. Hopefully fans can now stop over hyping Richardâs, right now dude isnât very good and shouldnât be seeing 1st team minutes either for club or country.
The press that we were doing in the second half was so confusing. I need someone smarter than me to explain that weird bank of 3 thing we were doing
Agree, would love to see a serious tactical breakdown. I think we defended in *three* different ways throughout the game. We started out for the first 20â in a version of the 442 that we played against England but with a weird wrinkle I donât totally understand (see [this thread](https://x.com/bob_morocco/status/1713272810108506253?s=46&t=vLUe1pgWSc_w_lyk5Bs2xQ)). Then we switched to our standard 433 defensive shape for the rest of the first half. Then I donât understand what we did in the second half, but as you say it looked different from anything weâve done before.
I would love to see Pepi/Balogun swap for next game. What can Balogun do subbing on against tired legs? Letâs get him out running!
Instead of that, why not do something like dripping the 4-3-3 for a 4-3-1-2 with Pulisic as the 10, and both Pepi and Balogun up too. Balogun gs played in a two striker system and can assist well. Everyone argues with one over the other. Why not both? This is what friendlies are both. Tactical changes to get the best 11, but also the best tactical grouping of 11. Doesnât mean we stay 4-3-1-2 the whole game. Once Pepi or Balogun are subbed off⊠just go back to the 4-3-1-2. Because honestlyâŠ. Iâd rather have Reyna or Weah off the bench running against tired legs. Weâve done that in the past and always seen an IMMEDIATE difference.
While I agree with most critiques, in the end what one would expect to happen happened. We lost against a better team. We arenât at that level yetâŠitâs gonna take another generation or two. BUT⊠we played them straight up. This is different from years past. I would rather lose 3-1 trying to play our game than park the bus and tie/lose narrowly.
We looked good first half for sure.
Weah and Pulisic just jump off the screen with their speed. Pulisic with club minutes looks different. Sloppy. That is an intense amount of talent out there for us, disappointed with the result, thought we'd win.
with the ball at his feet Dest is has the quality to be a locked in starter at the best teams in the world. when he is tasked with defensive positioning he genuinely reminds me of some of the guys on my rec team.
Imo I'd rather start Scally than him, honestly
He is such a liability. On one of their goals, Ream, the closest defender to Dest, pulled up while Dest just stood there keeping Fulkrug onside. Why? I felt bad for Richards who took the brunt of the blame.
Who was dancing on the video board at halftime?
That was a great dance battle!
It was insane! đ„đ„đ„
Greg NEEDS to be fired... again. This dude couldn't manage an Arby's, let alone a national soccer team.
Greggg out
LOL at this being downvoted. US Soccer must have an intern out there with hundreds of accounts. Iâve never met one fan in real life that thinks Berhalter should be our manager. Not one.
The loyalty and hold that Gregg has on people in this sub is nuts
Can't believe you're being downvoted. Gregg the egg fucking sucks
Gregg has no idea on how to utilize Balogun. This dude is gonna be wasted under Gregg's tenure and it's gonna be excruciating to watch. Pulisic despite the goal, was pretty average when compared to Musah and Weah who were on fire with their fast pace and ability to dribble past players.
Balogunâs a forward. He has to create chances for himself and his teamâŠ.Whatâs Gregg to utilize??
Greggâs system is not designed for a 9 to thrive and you have to be delusional to not know that.
You realize that as soon as you start insulting someone personally no one listens to what you say and just thinks youâre an asshole
One game. Itâs been one game with Balogun. Of course itâs not going to be ideal, such a reactionary take.
5 games! Itâs still reactionary, but itâs starting to get a little concerning. But it sounds like weâre working on this in practice and the chemistry just needs to improve.
Took bj 2 matches to see balo do anything. I think balo should score against Ghana
This is made up bologna, honestly. Thereâs no basis to it. Like seriously, look up Balogunâs stats under BJ and then Gregg. Itâs near identical.
The Ghana game will be more interesting to me. Ghana is a country that we were an underdog against in the past but we should be able to beat with this team if weâve really improved.
We've been consistently been ranked ahead of Ghana.
my favorite part of the game was when multiple of our players put the German wunderkid Wirtz in a spin cycle. Weah absolutely blazed by him on one run. Musah megged him. Both times were hilarious. Somebody's gotta clip those up so we can bully Germany fans later once we get over today's L
Wirtz is better than weah and musah combined so thereâs nothing to meme about
......except the part where Wirtz got absolutely rinsed twice.....
Litterally the entire point of his post.
Greg out. The interim coach was better. Can't believe they just rehired this guy.
BJ beat Canada and a historically bad Mexico team. Germany is a far superior opponent.
The interim was literally running Gregg's exact system. Also this is a friendly against one of the most talented teams in the world. Like I'm not happy about a loss, but we were competitive and did some good and some bad.
Can't believe you think you're adding anything to the conversation
My favorite thing about The Gregg Berhalter era is how ambiguous it can be. It can be what you want it to be. 2019 Gold Cup: Put up all time bad performances in the tune ups against Jamaica and Venezuela. Then you win 5 straight before losing a hard fought final to a team that was better than us 2019 Nations League: Put up an all time bad performance in Toronto, before Curb stomping Canada by 3 goals and winning the group to advance. 2021: Nations League, you win both games and lift a trophy despite not looking particularly great in either game. 2021: Gold Cup. Win 5 straight games while looking not great in 4 of them, and then top it off with a fantastic performance against our arch rival despite using a B team against their A team. 2 trophies, Gregg is undeniably good right? Well that takes us to 2021/22 qualifying: We undeniably underachieve finishing in a tie for 3rd despite being the most talented team. There's still highs like dos a cero, our best ever Azteca performance, 4-1 in San Pedro Sula, Crushing Panama by 4 goals. Pre World Cup: Crush Morocco and draw Uruguay? No problem there's a Japan loss and Saudi draw to negate that World Cup: Disappointing result in Game 1, over achieving Game 2, get the job done in game 3, and then lose to a far better team in game 4. Leading to a good enough but not magical round of 16 exit. The guy has a remarkable ability to hit par. People who want to like him can point to plenty of highs and "yeah but" every low. Vice versa for the people who want to hate him. I can picture the Copa America now. We'll probably be seeded and be the best team in our group with home field advantage. We'll top it while not playing amazing, before playing a decent but not great South American team like Paraguay in the quarters. We'll eek out a thriller , before getting a semifinal reality check against Brazil or Argentina. The pro Gregg people will say "Boom, semifinal ", while the anti Gregg people will point out we were favored in every game before getting crushed when we played an actual power And the same interest arguments will ensue into 2026
Getting to the semi-final in a Copa America is something that many rationally-minded fans would celebrate, even those from nations with a better team than ours. You can keep moving the goalposts on him, as long as he gets the credit he deserves. Don't forget that the players have and will continue to make game-losing errors. Over the years, GGG has taken a lot of heat that deserved to be directed at the players. Time to stop coddling our golden boys, they're grown men now. They can handle some accountability.
Simply meeting expectations, in all honesty. Which leads to a fun philosophical (I guess) discussion. We, generally speaking, want to exceed expectations. So when we simply meet them, did we fail? So is the expectation to actually succeed expectations, thus raising the level of expectations?
Statistical vs emotional (personal) expectation. It's only an oxymoron because you're calling them the same thing.
Thereâs no oxymoron at all, actually⊠Statistical vs emotional expectations donât make any sense either. People set an expectation, with either facts or emotions, then still a large section gets upset when itâs not exceeded. Regardless of what logic they used to set it.
Okay then, rephrase your sentence to be "we HOPE to exceed expectations" and no more problem
Well I see âwe wantâ which has about the same implication lol
There is a desire and there is an expectation, you're trying to call them both expectations.
Not just Berhalter. This is basically the story of every USMNT manager weâve had in the last 30 years. Itâs because weâre essentially a good but not great program thatâs just talented enough to put up a fight in challenging situations but not quite talented enough to consistently beat the best teams (or dance through weaker teams when weâre not totally focused). Berhalter has his strengths and weaknesses, but the problems here are bigger than the coach.
That reality check against previous World Cup winners, Argentina, and the always top 5 nation, Brazil, sounds likeâŠ.reality. We should accept it and honestly enjoy it.
I had a thought. People love to blame the coach, but if you just traded coaches, would the result have been different? If Nagelsmann coached the US and Berhalter coached Germany would we have gotten a result?
We have a coach that no other Top 50 nation would even consider for the national team job. We are at an extreme coaching disadvantage versus most any decent team. And, yes, Nagelsmann coached circles around Berhalter and we would have had a chance if the roles were reversed.
Nagelsmann is arguably the best national team coach in the game right now, having him would certainly improve our team. But Germany would still be large favorites.
ayo what are you even talking about lol. The dude has played exactly one game as a national team manager. "best NT manager in the game"? how bout we wait and see first? maybe he is, but I don't see how you can judge that off of one friendly.
I just meant âbest manager who is currently managing a national team.â Guy was just at Bayern, heâs a top flight manager, not many of those at NTs.
I agree with him as the best coach rn and we would be better overall, but I donât think he wins us this game or even really changes the score.
By which metric???
The talent gap is too big for a coach to consistently overcome it. Nagelsmann is one of the best tho, so I'm sure the play would look different
I mean I think so but thatâs more because I rate Naglesmann pretty highly. Even today he clearly made some changes that improved his teams overall performance
Nope.
sure if the ball kept getting deflected and falling to players open on goal
Thereâs a talent gap to be sure, especially after our first 11. Our shape changed when Reyna came out, and De La Torre didnât offer much in the midfield. Meanwhile, they brought on Goretzka, Havertz, Brandt, Sule, etc. all those guys would walk into our 11 and instantly be our best players lol. Having a healthy Adams, Reyna, Robinson, etc changes that a bit, but weâre paper thin, especially along the back line
nah, honestly, I think the difference on the night was just mental mistakes and tackling....that first half was pretty good and we fell apart the second half. We aren't where we want to be so there's still work to be done. Gana is good too so hopefully they show up.
Yeah. A lot of the difference between first half and second came down to in the first half we were successfully playing through their pressure. In the second half we were not.
When is Greg going to figure out that we canât play 433 against big opponents. We need to play our strengthâŠand possession and defending against strong pressure is definitely not it.
Classic GGG hater criticizing the formation not realizing we weren't playing a 4-3-3. It was a 4-2-3-1.
A 4-3-3 can be any number of things depending on who you play in it and what their roles are. It didnât work today because with Adams out, we donât have a holding midfielder who can cover for the shortcomings of our back line, and our backline itself is in a transition phase where our best CB is getting old but our younger ones arenât ready. Combine those problems with an attack-minded outside back in Dest whoâs not a good defender and a cohort of inexperienced outside back alternatives (Scally, Lund, and Jones), and you get a team thatâs incredibly vulnerable defensively no matter what formation you play.
Thatâs not true at all. A 433 is a very offensive formation and we packed it with a lot of offensive players that arenât good at defending. Thatâs on Greg. A formation like a 442 would have been better against Germany and maybe even a 451 to take control of the midfield. The formations make a big difference.
You clearly don't understand tactics. Switching to a 4-5-1 does not mean you will control the midfield. That's not how this works.
Whatever the formation, you need players who are comfortable in it and have the skillsets to make it work. You can play a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1, but if the best midfielders in your player pool are all used to getting forward and having a more defensive-minded guy behind them to cover, the extra numbers that you get in the midfield are only going to help you so much. And by contrast, if you stick with a 4-3-3 but have a player at the base of that midfield 3 who prioritizes his defensive duties, the formation is going to play differently than a 4â3-3 where everyone gets forward and nobody positions themselves properly when the ball turns over. Itâs not that formations donât matter, they absolutely do. But the bigger issue for us right now is personnel. Weâve got a fair amount of talent, but itâs unevenly distributed by position and thatâs leaving holes/inconsistency in key roles.
He have plenty of defensive midfielders that are good but Greg chose to play the offensive midfielders to go along with his formation. I agreeâŠwe have a good talent pool but Greg isnât using them well enough.
Wait who is this stud d mod we have? Adams is hurt soâŠ.
You mean, Johnny, who has barely climbed the depth chart since joining us? Or Delaney, basically just joined the program? The lack of depth at the defensive midfield position has been an issue for a while now. It wasnât going to get better in time for this game.
This post makes no sense whatsoever. A 433 doesn't require any particular style of play; it's probably the most versatile formation. And what would you do against strong pressure? Not defend?
433 is like putting 'other' on a form. the. number of people who think the 433 is specifically where players play on the field the whole game is concerning. As some say here, its about roles. You got 433s that are obvious 4231s. You got your classic inverted fb 3223 build up. Into a 4223 high press back into a 442. Whoever decided that adding a single formation...at least do offense and defense...because then sites will put up one over the other depending on who controls possession...
Too true. After every game there's a ton of people on here complaining about tactics who couldn't describe accurately 90% of what was occurring.
at least i can say ive seen the exact same thing from fanbases of world-class teams fixating on formation and complaining they didn't play X when they really did play X but no one could be bothered with a heatmap.
haha. "We've made it! Our fans are as reactionary as other nations!"
433 is an offensive formation. Against strong opponents, we need a defensive formation. Like 532 or 442 depending on individual skill level.
Sorry I think thatâs a bit unfair here. It definitely is most often used as an offensive / high pressing formation. An inverted back 325 into a 424 high press back to a 442 block . But depending on opponent it can just be a 4231 in hiding as well. But donât think this was an incorrect statement. Greg just doesnât have his 8s play like 10s. He definitely keeps it conservative.
433 is about as vanilla as possible. It's not inherently offensive at all, and certainly something like a 442 is not necessarily anymore defensive. It's a friendly. There's absolutely ZERO reason to play a 532 and bog the game down. Even if you increased your chances of winning (which is debateable), you're not learning anything about what your players can do.
Of course a 433 is more offensive. Youâre playing with three forwards up top. A 442 plays only 2 and has 4 midfielders instead of 3, which is typically for more control or defense in the midfield. Obviously, it depends on the players the coach uses in the formation and if they can play the role well. But thatâs entirely on the coach and his vision. thatâs why the poor performance of the team is on Greg for not balancing the team well enough.
Yeah, I mean the goal if you are of the positional persuasion is to have a numerical advantage in the box with 3 forwards and 2 8s making runs against a back 4. If you donât. Itâs a weird choice for sure. I think Greg stopped ready before that part.
There are plenty of 433s that are less offensive than some 442s. Tactics are a hell of a lot more than formations. And I'd far rather lose this game and try things than play overly defensive and eke out a draw. It's the difference between a long term strategic plan and the usual fan reactionism.
Man U plays a 442 TIL they are a defensive team
Formations nothing without further context. Itâs about roles.
Okay but itâs a friendly. Whatâs wrong with trying to go for it in a game that means nothing?
Bingo. We learned a lot this game about what individual players can do. There's a weird focus on tactics by people who don't understand tactics when this game had very little to do with tactics. There's no reason to play scared in a game that doesn't matter.
>There's no reason to play scared in a game that doesn't matter. this 1000000000% zero percent chance in a competitive game we play this open. I think of this game as a better version of the mexico friendly in the last cycle
Yep. I think there was some concerning stuff here. It's not all roses, or really many roses. We didn't play very well, though we did hold our own in spurts. But in about 90% of friendlies under Berhalter we're running what I would call exaggerated tactics to pressure test stuff, test things out, get people in certain rhythms. I don't love our passive defense, and I question whether our players are equipped to do it well. But that's also an argument to practice it, because you can't fly at people all the time.
The biggest positive is heâs getting to test it with our best players, Sans TA who was our 2nd most reliable player last cycle anyways so we know what he brings, instead of having to plug something different each game due to 3 game cycles or injuries.
Thatâs how we played in the World Cup last time. It didnât go so well. He should have taken a good lesson from playing the Netherlands like that.
We played a totally different way against the Dutch
We didnât play that way against the Dutch lol Adams instead of gio changes the landscape of the set up significantly.
The way the Dutch beat us had little to no similarities to how the Deutsch beat us today. Very different games IMO. PS: I had to do the Dutch - Deutsch thing when I saw the opening. Sorry lol Edit: To elaborate after I verified. Dutch gave us possession and were very clinical. Germany today âpepperedâ our goal and controlled possession, especially in the second half.
yep the Dutch were super clinical and punished us. Germany was not clinical at all but the ball fell perfectly for them off deflections multiple times. not sure how anyone can look at any 3 of their goals and act like it was a great play all the way through or tactical brilliance. just 3 lucky bounces with the ball falling right at player's feet for goals
I mean we ran out in a 442 against England. Today, we alternated between a true 443, and a 4231/442 in defense. And tbh, if the 433 is our base formation, we should be trying it against the best opponents to see how we are developing
433 works for us on concacaf opponents. It does not work against teams like Germany or the Netherlands during the World Cup. We need a defensive formation against quality teams.
it didn't work today, yah. But against the Netherlands we had a bunch of mental mistakes from playing our starters too long through the group stage. Like all three goals came from single mistakes (fullbacks and Adams not tracking back). With Adams healthy I still think the 433 will work for us against bigger opposition, but today just proved Musah isn't ready to play that 6 against the big boys, in my opinion at least
i dont know why the narrative is that we got outcoached, because it was so much worse. Adams, Jedi, Musah were all in the top10 distance covered during the group stage. Weah, Pulisic, dest had also played almost every minute of their 100+ min games with the long injury periods. 400+ min in 10 days. I think they played to make it out of the group. because the alternative would be that they didn't realize how tournaments work.
People just took a poor translation of van Gaal's comments and ran with it. My guess for why that became the narrative is just because people want an easy answer. We lost cuz GGG sucks is an easy answer. It's a lot easier to explain then the coach messed up by not rotating enough in earlier games. Mainly because I think the same people who freak out about that narrative, would have been pissed if we had rotated the players. I would also agree that their first goal was to simply make it out of the group which lead to way too many minutes on the legs of our best players for the Ro16. Luckily if our players remain healthy we already have 4 midfield starters who are World Cup quality, and can do a lot healthier rotations for Copa and 2026.
I dont like conspiracies in general, but its hard not to think that became the goal following the draw vs wales while everyone was asking where is Gio and Greg knew he needed results. But I've never seen Adams walking out there and it wasn't even the second half. At least it wasn't an opponent we should beat but couldn't because the core 7 players were headed towards heatstoke.
Itâs a mix. Drawing Wales forced the 1st-string into every game. We didnât have more than 14 guys trusted to be on the field.
Yeah, i guess that's not a conspiracy, regardless of what caused the tie.
Todd?
How did we beat a better Germany team with Bobby Wood
A better Germany team? It had like three starters at the time and was largely a B team. Also, people need to stop caring about results in friendlies.
Because Jurgen Klinsmann was a better manager. They beat Germany twice (DC & Cologne).
A better manager is a big stretch lol he fucked us out of the 2018 WC
That was Bruce Arena that fucked the U.S. out of the 2018 WC. If they didnât fire Jurgen back in late 2016 the U.S. most likely would have qualified.
What? When Klinsmann got fired, we were dead last in the hex. Arena would have had to win almost every game to get us in. You think Klinsmann was likely to do that after that loss to CR? He had also lost the team entirely after Costa Rica lol, no way he would have got us there. Arena inherited a dumpster fire. Granted, he wasnât great either, but the failure to qualify in 2018 is squarely on Klinsmann as far as managers go
Youâre dead wrong accept the L. Arena all he had to get was a tie a freaking TIE against Trinidad and he failed. Arena is responsible for the biggest U.S. failure in the history of U.S. Soccer
delulu
Where was I wrong? Werenât we in dead last when Klinsmann was fired? Blaming it on the guy who came in the last 8 months instead of the guy who had been fucking up for years consecutively is some serious revisionist history lol
Thereâs a reason why you got negative 5 votes lol youâre dead wrong and full of delusion. Fucking up for years? The same manager that led us out of the group of death in the 2014 WC. Finally beating Ghana in a WC after getting eliminated by them in back to back World Cups thanks to your boy Arena and Bradley. Leading the U.S. to the semifinals of the 2016 Copa America. Always playing elite teams away from home unlike Belharter. He raised the bar and delusion fanboys like yourself got triggered by it. L mentality
Help me out here then. Why was Klinsmann the only US manager to ever get fired in the hex? Did he get fired for doing well?
Germany put out an experimental team in the 2015 game. This team today was pretty much their first choice selection (minus Kimmich)
Because Bobby Wood was a great striker that our fan base would throw praise on now but didnât appreciate back then.
He scored a golazo with his weak foot.
Soccer is more random than people understand
Germany team that won 2 of its last 7 games. Not the powerhouse of old but still ran through us. Going to be interesting to see if the US can develop over the next 2.5 years
dude, have a look down their roster. They are a powerhouse who have been underperforming, not the other way round.
Almost as if a proper manager can utilize talent, formations and tactics properly can boost a team. What a feeling.
And the wrong hire can demoralize/stabilize a very talented squad, so it cuts both ways. Iâm all for an improvement in our coaching if one is available and interested, but until then Iâm not willing to roll the dice
First sentence is great to remember. Hiring or rehiring can do this. Now see thatâs a great shout. Did we improve our coaching staff? Nope. His damn assistant looked a better tactician than him
Good thing that assistant was and still is on his staff.
Agreed, BJ looked somewhat tactically competent in his small spell
kinda telling on yourself here lol
Lol itâs so funny watching people freak out over gggâs tactics from literally anyone else. Almost like they donât know what theyâre talking about.
Itâs sad to see so many fans settling for gregg
Itâs called being realistic and not hating on the guy responsible for so much of the talent he apparently squanders.
Thatâs not what I was saying lol
I know đ
They have incredible depth and literal world beaters on their team lol.
Their roster still says theyâre a powerhouse lol bad runs of form happen
Anyone know why we play in a no seats fcs stadium in hartford instead of nyc or boston? Glad we finally played in this part of the country instead of ohio, but it is 12 hours roundtrip by train from manhattan to see this game
Of all the complaints about today, the stadium and crowd is a wild thing to take issue with. The atmosphere was absolutely phenomenal. Sorry it wasnât in your backyard but they set a pretty good bar today.
Tough shit for you
Thanks friendly internet troll for your useful and thoughtful response. May your next 3 hours of reddit scrolling be filled with boredom :)
Thanks friendly internet troll for your useful and thoughtful response. May your next 3 hours of reddit scrolling be filled with boredom :)
I think anyone calling for Dests job need to realize what the alternatives are... I mean Scally was playing his position and doing... Nothing? I think Dest will be fine on his natural side and I think you absolutely have to live with his defense at this point. I think a bigger question is what is the plan for the CBs moving toward 2026? Is Tim Ream really going to be in that conversation? I love Ream and all he's done but I think you've gotta move into trying to find a CB pairing you can build around for 2026. (if you're putting a gun to my head today and I would say CCV and Richard's would be the front runners). I think this also shows the technical prowess of a player like Tyler Adams and how important he is. I also think Reyna was a huge reason why we played so well in the first half and brings a dynamic in the midfield no one else can come close to matching. He was an outlet that relieved pressure so well while moving the ball forward into dynamic positions. I think the CB pairing and finding a 70 minute role for Reyna are the two biggest questions moving toward 2026.
As someone at the game and watching Gio closely he did zero. Was the worst player on the field the first half. Terrible touches and looked lost. Dest and Scally did a solid job.
If this is your takeaway you should stop going to games and waste your money some place else.
Cool. You are super awesome. I wanted Gio to be good but he wasnât. He was the weakest person on the pitch. Maybe when he is healthy itâll be different. But today he was bad.
Dest should not be on the left. I'm glad we gave Scally some time on the right. It's good to give him that shot even if the result was basically that we aren't missing much. He was subpar today on defense and showed nothing on offense. It's a tough matchup, but he wasn't good. But I want a real LB and to keep Dest right side.
Iâll take Scally and ARob. Dest just canât get it done tbh.
Caleb Wiley's growth in Atlanta over the last season has been crazy. He's 18 and he flat shut down Columbus Crew's Yedlin, Nagbe and Rossi in our last game. If he gets a European transfer to a club that pushes his development, I think he'll be in the mix as a back line starter by WC. Sadly, it feels like Robinson plateaued because of his Achilles injury. Not sure he's the CB of the future, when he looked inevitable before.
I like Wiley, but he did not stop nothing in that game. Stop lying. Columbus crew were rampant in that game and should have scored more. Easily rossi s best game in a crew jersey up to that point. It's not like any of those players had a real 1v1 matchup against wiley as crew have a very fluid system. Yedlin doesn't even play for the crew?
Brain fart, Zardes. And yes, a very fluid system and highest scoring in the league. And an 18 year old left back did just fine against them.
Zardes doesn't play for the crew anymore either. Wiley was alright,he did his part, made a couple blocks in that game. But it wasn't like he shut the crew down on that side like you made it out to be. I do like wiley as prospect, he's shown to be a pretty good player at 18 in the mls which is a good sign. Still got a ways to go as full back and I don't think he is ready for Europe just yet.
I looked at a roster for an old game. And yes, I didn't say he was a shutdown machine, but he was solid and not at fault on any Crew chances that I recall with 2 (but not 3) players with usmnt starts and 2 midfielders called up to their national teams in this break. At 18 that's a European prospect, I'd love to have him another year, but I don't expect it.
Wiley has the talent to, but I think it's too soon. If I was advising him, I'd tell him to wait not chase the move right now. If the right offer comes, then take it. If not, get another year playing as regular, go to the Olympics, and make a move the next year. If he does leave, He would need to move to a developmental league like Holland or Belgium. Going to the wrong team in the top league hed probably be another George bello. Anyway, what's his contract situation? You're likely to losing Robinson and almeda after this season, the later will generate a big fee. Don't see atl being pressured to sell him.
Yeah. I get why Bello wanted Bundesliga instead of Belgium but he's a cautionary tale for sure. I don't know how much more improvement he'll get in Atlanta though, especially since we'll likely be losing Robinson and replacing Guzman next year. Could go either way.
hahaha exactly. Wiley is *not* a good defender at the moment (observed the same thing at the U23 game the other day)âhe is, however, pretty dang good in the middle and attacking thirds. idk if he projects as a winger long-term, but itâs his better position at the moment
the real one to watch imo is [Baker-Whiting](https://www.reddit.com/r/ussoccer/comments/173libf/backup_leftback_watch_18_yo_reed_bakerwhiting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)âable to play both FB positions effectively, in offensive and defensive phases. good size, technique, mentalityâreally looking forward to his next season
I was really encouraged by that first half. I thought we had some dangerous opportunities. But big turn in the second half. Biggest weaknesses: \- Depth is a big issue. Pulisic, Weah, and Reyna are all good creators, but who on the bench can do what they do? Nobody can do what Tyler does as a 6. Our CBs look shaky. Scally holds his own, but there's a big drop off from Dest and Jedi. \- We need to find better ways to get Balogun involved. Otherwise we are just wasting a tremendously talented player. Until we are using him correctly, we are probably better off with Pepi up top as he fits our current system better. \- While I like the idea of McKennie/Musah as a double pivot with Reyna as a 10. I think Tyler needs to be in the starting lineups, especially when we are playing better quality teams. We were just missing something without him. His presence masks a lot of our defensive vulnerabilities that we don't even realize until he is missing time. I know he doesn't make the lineup look as sexy on paper, but he needs to start against teams equal or better than us, even if it means sacrificing a bit on offense. Get better soon Tyler!
Koleosho will be a big depth piece if we can convince him. He could give us another pure creator on the wing who can actually create goals, like he's doing for Burnley right now.
Iâm over Dest or Scally playing LB. Theyâre RBs.
Agree. Worth it to see Scally on the right with Jedi out, but I don't think either works for us at LB.
Dest is playing a lot of LB for PSV this year. But agree i like him better at RB. His switch-footed-ness is more valuable when he cuts in on his left.
people keep saying this until we play our other LBsâŠ
Iâd rather a LB at LB đ€·ââïž
Why did everything go shit in the 2nd half
We changed shapes because 1) Gio isnât 90â fit and likely wouldnât play 90â in a friendly if he could & 2) his most like-for-like sub (Tillman) is also out injured. By changing shape, Germany was able to push a bit more forward than usual because our midfield played deeper and then we got overran, in simplest terms. An alternative wouldâve been to use Aaronson instead of DLT but I think we already know heâs not the Reyna replacement. DLT (& Musah) got tested against a tougher team trying to be a 6 and ultimately did not measure up. Either way, we were going to sub off Gio for an experiment and I donât think either works. Maloney or Johnny couldâve been better subs as well, but again, it was all a bit of a test. Maybe they do worse? Maybe they do better? No way to know. It was simply a choice and there wasnât an outright *bad* choice to test.
Germany changed shape too. They had 4 at the back to start but ran 3 in the second half
I wrote this in another comment but wanted to get it here too. There was a big change to formation (not players). We need to see if it was truly Reyna that made a large difference, or was it the shape and mentality in that second half. At times Reyna was pushed up towards a 2nd striker and we were more narrow in our defensive shape for the attacking 6 players. If thereâs going to be limited defensive responsibility for Gio, seems to me we could have kept the shape and put anyone in that position. Such as Aaronson or even Pepi. That also goes if Pulisic is going to have limited defensive responsibility, then a more defensive 8/or another 6 seems like it would be appropriate which is where the game went to
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get in simplest terms. Gio sat higher most of the time than DLT did. DLT is going to drop deeper defensively. Iâm sure it was part instruction, part thatâs just who the players are.
We are never going to outplay a Germany type team, HOWEVER we need to find a way to start getting results. It may need GGg to adjust his philosophy against tough sides
> GGg to adjust his philosophy ROFL
Turner had a bunch of really good saves in the first half
He really is great. Nothing he could do on any of the goals.
Dest is a defensive liability without Adams. Just completely lost on how to get back to defend. Might not even be in the starting lineup in a years time. Scally and Jedi are both better on defense than Dest is. Berhalter is dependent on a healthy Adams for defense. We canât play defense without a strong 6.
> Berhalter is dependent on a healthy Adams for defense. We canât play defense without a strong 6. To be fair, so are a lot of managers way better than Berhalter. Dependent on a strong 6. Like this season so far, Man City has won every game Rodri has started (Iâm not counting the glorified friendly in the Community Shield) and Real Madrid has won every game Tchouamendi has started. And they lost every game they havenât played. 6s are important people! lol
Rodri isnât a 6. He is a Rodri.
Scally was terrible on defense today?
And yet far better than Dest
I wonât say he was terrible, but his positioning is still questionable at timesâhowever, I think some of that also comes down to general understanding w/ his back-line/midfield that will hopefully improve (aka the reason we need more of these games too)
I standby, if everyone returns to previous levels, Adams - McKennie - Reyna is our best midfield 3. Unfortunately, 2/3 take turns being injured.
I'm not freaking out but I still notice a complete lack of intentionality in the final third. The plan remains to play out wide and hope a cross works out for us. I know we're a defensive team but I'd like something a little more planned out than prayerball going forward.
france and portugal both scored on crosses yesterday. in wildly different ways. not sure why you think crossing is a bad
I'm not against crossing. It can be effective when done right. The problem is that we don't have anyone whose particularly good at it and we don't put many guys in the box to receive them. An issue we have is that we lack the creativity and tactics to break down the other team's back line so we sort of just send crosses in because we don't know what else to do
this site should shut down for 24 hours following a game. We have had the consistent and persistent need to create more goal-scoring opportunities. But if you read this reaction to giving up three goals to Germany, apparently, the defense is the priority or the midfield. It is all important but if we for example don't score against Ghana, i look forward to those equality bold opposite claims
Are you disagreeing with me? I'm not sure what you're trying to say
haha yes (no i am not disagreeing), i had to scroll down so far to find someone mentioning offense..people are reactionary i get it. but what you mentioned is a reaction to the last 2 years
Oh yes. My thoughts aren't just about thus game but from everything I've seen under Greg
yeah, im not asking for much but while weah is a good player, he doesnt provide what the modern day winger, usually inverted, provides, low crosses from the midfield tend to be more dangerous. Its a real lack of understanding of the ideal behind a 433 which i believe are the best when used correctly.
How can we be a defensive team with being ass in defensive
Regardless of how we perform, we play a defensive system
Explain further.
The system Berhalter uses is a 433 that tends to sit back and invite opposing pressure with limited pressing outside of our own attacking third. His system seems reliant on good counterattacking and pressing in transition to force costly turnovers. Against well organized back lines we typically struggle because we have little creativity and manpower in the final third. We can't seem to keep possession effectively enough to pull a defense out of shape so we rely on crosses into the box which are rarely effective because of a lack of bodies and the right personnel.
My biggest takeaway is that we had exactly the same defensive problems that sent us home from the World Cup. We look unorganized.
That's the kind of thing that happens when you have the same backline. It isn't as easy as going out and buying a world class CB. These things time more time than in club soccer.