I assume because they think he can play in leagues better than those? Because he can. He can play in Italy/Germany/Spain, as long as it's not a power team or a team whose best current player is a CAM.
Bc the majority of this sub are Stans, they dont live in reality. He could start and play in a decent league and play Champions League football if he took a step down.
Good clubs do not put much stock in international competition performances anymore. I think Soccernomics has a chapter on how buying based on national team tournament performances has historically been a terrible strategy.
Agreed, international play is a step below. On top of the fact many players can look great for 5-6 matches playing all out for their county, especially if they are by far the teams best player vs being a cog in a system of great players. Doesn’t always translate to a full season.
Didn't Matt Turner sign with Arsenal after his performance at the 2021 Gold Cup, and Ethan Horvath was signed by Forest after his performance at the Nation's league final?
Not sure about Horvath, but Matt Turner was signed because he was statistically the best goalkeeper in MLS by a wide margin, the Gold Cup performances were just a cherry on top
Hate to say it, but unless he's balling out against Uruguay, Colombia, or Brazil, it won't move the needle much. No one's going to care if he scores a hat-trick against Panama or Bolivia. It doesn't help that the Euros are going to also be happening and most European scouts will be more invested in that tournament.
I think you’re wrong about most scouts being in Europe. They can easily always scout there. Scouring the best talent from the western hemisphere all at one time isn’t as easy for European scouts to do.
Its normal, in just about every sport, for a professional scout to be able to watch and evaluate a athlete's ability and potential regardless of opponent strength. But they have to be able to actually watch the athlete play not sit the bench or jog around at practice.
The NBA scouts high schoolers playing against pedestrian teen athletes. The NFL can evaluate an OT that plays for Tulane vs Alabama and draft accordingly. Baseball regularly finds half homeless teens playing on dirt lots on remote islands.
Im so tired of this idea that playing well against lower level teams is irrelevant, especially to the young guys struggling at their club...
Last cycle even proved it wrong, when Puli, Wes, and Dest were all getting frozen out of their clubs and their really good play for the USMNT at least pulled them out of their own personal rut but likely pushed clubs into reevaluating their abilities outside of their terrible club situations.
Gio's game against Mexico as a Regista for Berhalter looked great. Teams will absolutely take note if he is putting up hat tricks for the USMNT even if its against teams like Panama or Boliva. Hell, just a repeat of his complete all around Mexico game a few times and someone will come calling.
No they won't because the standard of play by those national teams is too low.
Look who they have on their rosters. How many starters in the EPL, LaLiga, 1.Bl or Serie A are on Panama, Bolivia or Mexico?
The NFL doesn't care about what players do vs. scrub competition. For baseball almost every player spends years in the minor leagues. If you think the NBA is scouting high school players on what they do vs. teams with no one taller than 6'-3" then you are delusional.
Tillman usually plays wing for PSV. In fact he’s basically the reason Chucky doesn’t have a starting job anymore.
But Gio would probably not be able to get many minutes from Til tho
I follow Forest and he’s really been pretty mediocre on a not very good squad. Also the signing never really made sense to me considering the positions he plays are the deepest and most talented positions for the club already.
It’s funny: people keep saying that MGW is the “same position” but on paper Gio actually complemented him pretty well. The main problem is Gio was brought in as a “catastrophic insurance policy” in the event that Gibbs-White was slow to recover from his injury.
I think they could…but where do you slot him in? He hasn’t looked pacy enough when on the pitch and he’s not defensive minded enough to play as a true center mid in the prem. Just my opinion with watching him with the squad. I wish it worked out because he had some moments…just not enough to justify the cost so the where Forest is financially
He's fast enough, he's just not a Tim Weah style pace-merchant. Forest have plenty of those. Forest's problem was they have no midfield control: it's all run-like-Hell on the counter. So they could be relatively successful against Big 5 clubs (by successful I mean lose by a goal or two) while playing like crap vs bottom-dwellers. Given that Forest never really had the time or incentive to implement him into the squad, I thought he did pretty well when he played.
Elanga had a few solid showings mid season but I agree…he’s way too inconsistent. But he sort of fell out of favor yeah I don’t disagree with that at all. I would have liked to see more of him but it just wasn’t in the cards for a variety of reasons
People seem to ignore the incentives, though. Why on Earth would they play a guy they don’t have an option to buy instead of experimenting with their squad (including their developmental pool)?
This was an extremely forgettable loan spell. I remember when it happened, I was all excited. I thought he was going to have a breakthrough. Some people on here said "this is not going to go well", and I didn't listen. I'll take the L on this one.
How can I be wrong if Gio hasn’t proven me wrong yet? Christian had a strong track record at Dortmund and his first year at Chelsea. What has Gio accomplished that is comparable?
"What has he accomplished?" isn't' a binary thing. At least not to teams when looking at players. He had enough of a track record to be valued at 42M euros before his hamstring injury. That's fallen obviously, but Pulisic came to Milan for 25M and Reyna's worth around 20M (according to Transfermarkt) without any significant playing time.
You know transfermarkt is known to inflate values of players? Also, Gio's value won't play a factor in getting signed to another club. His playing history will.
Nah the guy is saying gio is going to return to Dortmund from a poor loan and ball out for Dortmund next season.
Weston had an unsuccessful loan to Leeds and has been really good for juve this season.
Nah Weston's stint at Leeds was much more painful than Gio's at Nottm. Maybe you're right and he'll return with some fire, but I don't think they make a good comparison.
The biggest problem is that BvB doesn’t know exactly what to do with him. The organization obviously rates him, forces him to extend his contract as a condition of seeking minutes elsewhere. He played well at Forest, but it his minutes were always a bit forced: he was brought in as a “break glass in case of” backup for MGW. The two of them actually looked promising together, but they were never going to spend time integrating a player without a buy option once they were “safe.”
The most likely outcome is that BvB rebuilds and tries to give Reyna a larger role next season, or they try to put him in a more appropriate setting on a loan w an option to buy.
I’d love to see him in Serie A or the Eridivisie next year but there just aren’t many clubs who can afford a player of Reyna’s caliber.
I think that depends on Reyna. I suspect their meeting at the end of the year was regarding his exit from the team. They added a year to give them another chance to loan, but this time they can't ask for a crazy buy number or they will lose him for free. Since he doesn't play, you can't ask teams to pay 20 mil for him...Many la liga teams would be interested at a reasonable price...sociedad has had good fortunate at the 15 mil number....
Depends on if he wants to stay as a spot starter/super sub or not. Reus and maybe another attacker are leaving and that would open up “some” playing time for him
Gio needs to go somewhere like the Eredivisie to get a solid season on the board, or absolutely ball out against Brazil or Argentina at the Copa. Anything less and he's gonna rot on the vine.
No, but considering they were set up purely to avoid giving up a bunch of goals (because they were protecting their huge goal differential lead over Luton), Gio had no purpose in the side.
On the bright side, his leg is getting stronger. There could have been a timeline where he tore it again, now if he's treated it properly (which is always a big if) he should be well behind it.
It really is just that simple. Right now, he's not good enough for the Prem or the top teams in the other 4 leagues.
CCV and Reyna are in polar opposite positions and a lot can be learned from CCV to be applied to Reyna. Accept minutes at a lower level club. Carve out a career where you'll actually have one. Not everyone is going to be "great" and that's fine too.
I really hate to say it but it was so obvious this move wasn’t going to work out for Gio. He’s not a player that thrives in a relegation side. Especially in the prem
Unfair tbh, he never really got a chance. It seemed like the manager had never any intention to commit to playing him since he was brought in. I think something political went on.
What he's doing is not getting mins, he's super productive when he does.
Tired of all this he needs to do this or that or he's injured and shouldn't start blah blah blah bs. Stat line don't lie, the boy balls. Get him some mins.
With all due respect, no coach he has played for agrees with you. While I would get a one or two off, it is pretty consistent. I think he needs a mentality shift and a good fit. That is all I am saying.
I see a lot of things in the world of soccer, hell Suarez was out there biting and legitimately trying to hurt people. People cry left and right and up and down and still get time.
The young man is producing.
He’s a €23M player who’s been given every opportunity to shine. Reyna’s a €20M player who was (marginally) overlooked in favor of Julian Brandt and Marco Reus. I think a lot of folks weird antagonism prevents them from seeing things clearly.
League one is below his level. I was just thinking he could be a guy who helps them promote this year, bask in the shine of the documentary and play virtually every minute he’s healthy enough to play.
Reyna is clearly very talented, but he is building an attitude reputation that will absolutely wreck his chances of being successful in the sport.
He probably should spend 1 year in a small-ish club where he gets the chance to play every single week. That might rehabilitate his reputation.
I have never heard one bit of drama coming from BVB or Forest. I think you’re trying too hard to extrapolate a single issue from the World Cup that we seemed to make a much bigger deal about than anyone in positions of authority.
Because the morons on this sub think that in world football the USMNT matters.
Pro-tip : It doesn't.
Literally no club outside the USA gives a shit about USNT drama and frankly they'd rather any USA player they have not play for the USMNT because there's only downsides (lack of availability, wear and tear, injuries) and from the perspective of everyone else, no glory. CONCACAF Nations League and the Gold Cup have zero cache.
Maybe that is a factor for Pulisic, none of the other players move the needle enough where the few shirt sales counters the downsides.
Especially in the case of Reyna, where injuries playing for the USNT are the ones which have de-railed his career. The big injury in Sept 2021 that took away his starting spot and killed his good start to the season under Rose happened while playing for the USNT as did the injury that forced him to miss pre and early season this year.
If you think from Dortmund's perspective that missing Gio for those periods of time were in any way counterbalanced by some small amount of merch sales, I think you are wrong.
Other managers have criticized his training as well. He clearly looks good for us - and good enough to at least get spot minutes for Dortmund and Forest - and it’s kind of telling that he hasn’t.
[Here's one](https://twitter.com/usmntotaku/status/1744354378318856551?s=46&%3Bt=xzxy-cPBbQF2MkLJj1azVg) from this year, which I'll admit isn't a very good source because it's not a direct quote and doesn't specifically mention his effort in training. Tough for me to find one now because I don't speak German, but from talking to other Dortmund fans (who do speak German) the kind of prevailing wisdom among fans was that he was a good player that didn't play good defense and that managers had implied he didn't work on that part of his game in training. Obviously fans are wrong in many cases, but in this case it's pretty consistent with what we've seen.
[Another one](https://sbisoccer.com/2023/03/edin-terzic-on-gio-reyna-he-has-to-be-diligent-and-patient) - Terzic saying Gio has to be "diligent and patient", but it's kind of hard to tell what "diligent" means in that context (and obviously, the language thing too).
That last one seems to shed more light than anything, suggesting that it's more of an injury concern than anything else with Terzic. I think the defense thing might have held weight before, but as you can see there, he was the most active defender for Dortmund, not named Hummels, in his few minutes, which is all he can do and that has to come from training. So I am guessing that after showing the improved defense and still not getting a start, probably asked what he had to do to make the first team. He showed in the last game with the US that his defense is solid and appears comfortable playing as an 8 or double pivot...
I agree with the last two sentences. He needs to go to a club where there's no question that he's the number one choice every week. Whether that's in a Championship side, a smaller European country, or even back in MLS (which I'm usually 99% against but makes sense in this case).
I will say it till I'm blue in the face, Gio needs to find a team that is willing to deal with Gio's inconsistencies when he's not on the ball. A Forest team that was a mess outside of the attack and leaking goals is less likely to give someone like Gio time especially when they're fighting relegation.
I don't really think attitude is the issue some think it is (though I do think Claudio getting involved to get him out of Dortmund was a negative) but I do think the last season and a half should be a lesson that he's gotta put the work in when he doesn't have the ball
He's actually quite good OOP.
Over on BigSoccer, someone compared Gio's defensive stats versus RLC at Milan:
>He plays defense at least as hard/well as RLC at AC Milan. And unlike RLC, he isn't blind when forwards are making runs. I don't know why RLC is an auto starter for Milan and Reyna is a bench warmer for NF, but I do believe Pulisic would rather be on the field with Reyna than he would with RLC when his team needs to score a goal.
||Reyna 22-23 with BvB|RLC 23-24 with Milan|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Tackles per 90|2.03|1.07|
|Tackles won per 90|1.01|0.76|
|Blocks per 90|1.16|1.07|
|Interceptions per 90|0.43|0.25|
|Clearances per 90|0.72|0.41|
|Errors leading to opponent shot per 90|0.0|0.05|
I think when people say Reyna "doesn't defend" what they mean to say he doesn't pass the eye test--he doesn't make these 80 yard runs back from the opponents 18 when the house is on fire. Instead he presses well and with discipline, and is effective. The exact same critique was lobbed at Tillman when he was at Rangers, and he had similarly impressive numbers--just missing the "run 90 yards to make a last-second block in the 6 yard box. Of course, now he's found his place at PSV, people don't talk about how he's a luxury player who can't defend, and if you brought it up with them they'd say, "It's great he worked to add that to his game!" But he's just doing the same thing he's been doing.
Some teams he might be a good fit at:
Crystal Palace - They might be offloading some big attacking talent this window which leaves room for a playmaker like Gio
Bayer Leverkusen - Wirtz replacement if he goes (very unlikely move IMO)
Dortmund - Reus is gone which leaves more minutes on the table for Gio if he can play into a prominent role for the team
Sevilla - [Move almost happened already once](https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/uk-premier-league/2024/01/gio-reyna-transfer-news-sevilla-nottingham-forest-marseille-hijack-borussia-dortmund-usmnt), maybe there is still interest and I think La Liga would suit his play style quite well
Milan - RLC has been an interesting experiment for them but he isn't the answer, I think Gio in an AM role would do well in Milan, American owners
I think it's more that he's yet to really establish himself as a starter at club level, and it seems like with multiple coaches he's been seen as a weird puzzle piece that doesn't fit into their plans.
I think the main thing is he’s a marginal starter for a CL finalist club. Then BvB forced a weird loan to a relegation EPL loan that was configured to play counterattacking football because they could get a few more euros.
Why do you think I said (very unlikely IMO) lol
And yeah he already almost went to [Sevilla in January ](https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/uk-premier-league/2024/01/gio-reyna-transfer-news-sevilla-nottingham-forest-marseille-hijack-borussia-dortmund-usmnt)
If he can start and play games for Dortmund he can play for any of those teams I listed realistically
He still started big games for them and contributed off the bench (7g, 2a in 22 games). He also started 3 Champions League games that season.
I get you guys want to dunk on Gio, but to ignore his talent level is just insane to me lol
I’m not dunking or ignoring his talent level. You said if can start and play games for BVB, he make the jump to the those teams. I’m just pointing out that he did not start or play much for BVB in last 24 months or so.
And I just pointed out he did in-fact start multiple games, including 3 Champions League games lol.
So yeah, if he can start for Dortmund, why wouldn't he be able to start for Sevilla for example?
He'll break. He doesn't have the physicality to survive in the Prem without getting injured. This last year just showed that.
Also, no Prem team is going to sign a player that failed to make an impact at Forest
?
He had no problems with the "physicality" of the EPL. You can argue that he lacks the athleticism (specifically quickness) to succeed in the EPL but Gio is plenty strong enough to play in the league.
He's a terrible choice for Crystal Palace because of the same reason he was a terrible choice for Forrest- They rely on athletic attackers to do shit 1v1. They are not a passing team. Gio needs to be on a team that wants possession.
The problem is that most of the EPL sides that he fits he wouldn't play at.
The only EPL side that would make sense would be Brighton.
That's a tough spot to be in. Not athletic enough for the athletic teams but not good enough to win his position at the possession based teams.
The sooner he moves to a lower level team, the better. But how many lower level teams play possession based football?
Alternately he just doesn't play in the EPL or he sustains a level of play that is high enough where he could play for the top EPL sides that are more about possession and making the extra pass.
Also, if he isn't quick enough to play in the EPL, which is by far the most athletic league, it doesn't mean he cannot play in La Liga, the 1.Bl or Serie A. It's just that at this moment he should be at an upper mid table side in one of those leagues, not the top teams.
The problem is that upper mid table sides in those leagues don't really spend a lot of money on individual transfers, which to me is why this loan was especially bad; He had to extend his contract by a season to get the loan and still didn't play. If he hadn't done that even if he wasn't getting on the field for Dortmund he would only be a year away from leaving on a free which I think would make it a lot easier to get to the clubs he should be at.
Sorry, I meant lower level anywhere, not just EPL.
I think the loan was the best available option for him. His situation at Dortmund wasn't changing. He fired his agent because they couldn't get him a move.
At the time, there's was a strongly held belief that the BVB coach was the impediment. So long as he could get in front of another coach, he'd win out the position or, at least, win meaningful minutes. I believe that Gio believed this, his private team believed this, this sub definitely believed this.
Without this loan, I think he wouldn't be playing at BVB but he would believe (and people would still be arguing) that he should go to a top level EPL or La Liga team. This loan was a necessary dose of reality for him. Hopefully, it spurs him in the right direction.
From his latest play on the national team and when he did get to play at Forrest, Gio looked like a willing defender and his eye/mind for where the ball should be was definitely there. That said he 100% lacks acceleration against top talent - whether that’s him just getting back to match fitness or a result from his injuries we won’t know until he plays more. He needs minutes.
I think there is a real opportunity for him to prove it over the summer and find form with BVB again because it’s obvious they lack creativity offensively. I also love the fit for him in La Liga or Serie A where he can excel with just his technical skills while he works on proving he can stay healthy.
P.S. Please get a new agent
The agent that shared ties with the manager of the team he sent him to? I agree the family and Gio’s decision making has been a problem, but let’s not pretend like this transfer situation wasn’t blatantly taken advantage of
Seriously, if you watched Forest they were built as a counterattacking side that had speed and little else. MGW was quite dangerous in transition, and CHO had one move (though a good move): take it to the top of the box, cut inside and send a right-footed curler into the far post. They were an *extremely* one-dimensional team. Reyna was actually a pretty good fit, but would’ve needed to begin the season at Forest. As it was he had like one start and some handful of minutes and still had an assist and what arguably should have been a penalty.
No, he was an extremely bad fit because of the reasons you said. Gio is a player who looks to make the extra pass, Forest are a trash tier passing team. They rely on athleticism and players trying shit 1v1. Gio needed to understand that on this team making the extra pass means the ball ends up on the foot a player who is ass. He needed to understand on this team you need to be really selfish in the attacking third.
When you go back and look at the games where he got significant minutes, so much of that was him beating three guys and spring and overlapping Neco Williams on the right who then received the ball and…took three extra touches and failed to do anything.
It’s also the reason they looked dangerous against top tier sides who came and attacked them, whereas they looked like crap against teams that bunkered and looked to counterattack.
Good, get him out of there. The kid does nothing but ball for the usmnt and his mins were great at Forest as well. Get Turner out as well and fuck forest. The team is ass and the boys get no time. They can suck it on their own.
Time to temper your expectations lads. A lot of you need to come to terms with the fact that he's just simply not some generational talent. And on top of that, this Forest move was DOGSHIT. He better be looking at a new agent after this.
He will be good, and I think he can become an important player in an established European side. But he hasnt even shown enough promise to reach the level at the heights in his career that Pulisic already has. The Sociedad, Sevilla or Marseille moves that were bounced around a few months back wouldve looked genius right about now. No need for 10s in the Prem right now, give up on it and move on.
I think context matters, he’s definitely a generational talent in terms of a homegrown US player. But in the context of the world, probably not… That being said it’s exceptionally rare for non-domestic players to be a locked in as starters at 21 years old. I think he has enough positive attributes that a manager/club will bring him in with an actual plan. The hope is that it happens quicker for him than it did for Pulisic.
I fully agree that context matters! He's gonna be a phenomenal player in the grand scheme of American soccer history. But that context needs to be used for USMNT fanatics when framing this dudes career. I know he's just a kid and he's got lots of time to improve but he's NOT gonna become the next #10 at Barcelona, Bayern, PSG etc. Not even at Milan or Chelsea, like a certain someone else. Ill echo the sentiments of wanting him to go to Eredivisie, Ligue 1, maybe a midtable Spanish or German side. Dest, Weston, Jedi etc all refined their craft at a tier 2 or even tier 3 side in terms of global quality. Gio needs THAT right now, NOT a Dortmund or Milan lmao
If there were any on field evidence that he can't play for a team like Dortmund or Forest, I would agree...but I struggle to find a game where he hasn't made the team better when he comes on, especially for the US and Dortmund. I don't see any reason for him to go to a worse competition for a while when he has already proved he is more than capable at a club like Dortmund...Players want to be challenged...I suspect Dest will not want to return to the Eredivisie following his injury either...I don't think its as fun when its easy and players looking to reach their potential know when you have a hard time finding better guys in the room, you need to move to another room.
Lol not sure about your ball knowledge man. PSV is a champions league quality side and Dest will be hungry to make his move there permanent at least for now. This isn't FIFA, I promise you he doesn't feel like he's playing on "semi-pro" while he's there lmao
Money is a factor for Dest. He is used to making 6M a year and there will be other teams looking for his services...it won't be easy to figure out a deal...I think he would be happy to play there, but I also think there are other teams he would be happy to play at as well...he made the team of the month 4 times meaning he is one of the top fullbacks in the league (this is obviously not semi-pro, this isn't specific to that league).
Yeah, same with Wes, if a player can't even play well on Leeds...we gotta seriously think about whether he deserves a first team call up...or maybe things change fast?
Sociedad are licking their lips right now...I imagine this phone call with Dortmund will be much different. At least they won't just hang up when they hear the buy option number. Otherwise they lose him for free.
Your statement lacks nuance. Wes was a consistent first team player at Schalke. Aka a club that wasnt expected (at the time) to be fighting for trophies OR fighting their way out of relegation. Just playing ball
>You statement lacks nuance.
Agreed. People need to take a deep breath: Kid is 21, was a (marginally preferred) backup to a German national team attacking midfielder, and a club legend at BvB. Forest wasn't a great fit (other than financially for BvB), but he actually did fine with the minutes he got. Wes was a squad player for a mid-table BL team but never showed any of the production Reyna did when he was playing under the previous manager before he was injured.
When someone is that confident in their opinion on a 21 year old...I'm definitely going to point out weird things that happen and how hard it is to know what the landscape will look next year much less the next decade...i trust my eyes...when gio is on the field, Dortmund plays better, when gio is on the field the US plays better...Unless they are deep faking streaming games, im gunna trust my eyes until they fail me...ill take your stock
He is way, way too talented to go back to the US. Plenty of options between starting for Dortmund and the MLS for him in the meantime (other teams in Germany, leagues like the Netherlands, France, etc).
Does this kid have a real attitude problem? Beefs with US coach. Can't find the field at Dortmund or a very below average NF. Mad skills yet can't get playing time? Starting to do the math.
Seriously, how can anyone hate this club: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nffc/comments/1cr932q/oh\_no/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nffc/comments/1cr932q/oh_no/)
I'm not sure what this is. I primarily care about Gio and want him to play and develop, and Forest seemed to drop the ball with him. Unless something extreme happens, they'll stay up.
>I'm not sure what this is.
Sorry, that photo was of the club's ridiculous owner and the supporters mercilessly dragging him. lol
>I primarily care about Gio and want him to play and develop
Yeah, me too. I don't blame Forest though--I more blame Dortmund for prioritizing short-term $$$ over their medium- and long-term player development. They could've sent Gio to a more "approprate" club and not made quite as much money, or they could've included a purchase option in the loan agreement in which case Forest would've had more incentive to integrate him. As it was, they maximized their balance sheet at the cost of yet another one of their young player's development.
Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks! Yeah Dortmund maximizes selling big players for a lot of money (Haaland, Bellingham, Sancho) and clearly just does whatever it takes to make money off of other players, then plead poverty when trying to buy players. I'm a United supporter, too, and would love to get a good price to sell Sancho back to Dortmund, but we'll see.
Hopefully Gio will get a better landing spot during the summer.
In some ways it was a bit of "out of the fire, into the frying pan" because--despite their unexpected success in the CL--Dortmund's been a bit of a dumpster fire. Lot of in-fighting among cliques of players, the club brought in Sahin as a kind of "advisor/coach-in-waiting" to either replace or supplement Terzic. It's just a train wreck. And as part of the Forest loan, BvB demanded an extra contract year, so clearly they're protecting what they see as a valuable investment. Whether that means he's going to get more playing time as a "shop window" at Dortmund, or he gets a more "appropriate" loan like Malik ended up with Bayern (going to Rangers, then PSV with various downstream incentives and payouts for performance, etc...) remains to be seen.
I don’t really care what league he moves to at this point, frankly I just want him on a team where he’ll for sure be playing minutes.
Belgium or Scotland at this point
Ajax could use his help id think
Fiorentina would be cool
don’t know why the downvotes when you’re right, playing time at this point in his career is more important than anything.
I assume because they think he can play in leagues better than those? Because he can. He can play in Italy/Germany/Spain, as long as it's not a power team or a team whose best current player is a CAM.
Bc the majority of this sub are Stans, they dont live in reality. He could start and play in a decent league and play Champions League football if he took a step down.
Gio stock is at the lowest, it’s ever been, that say something.
Luckily he will ball out at Copa and it will be the highest it’s ever been
Good clubs do not put much stock in international competition performances anymore. I think Soccernomics has a chapter on how buying based on national team tournament performances has historically been a terrible strategy.
Yes, that book is great read and I highly recommend it
Agreed, international play is a step below. On top of the fact many players can look great for 5-6 matches playing all out for their county, especially if they are by far the teams best player vs being a cog in a system of great players. Doesn’t always translate to a full season.
El Hadji Diouf 🤢
Didn't Matt Turner sign with Arsenal after his performance at the 2021 Gold Cup, and Ethan Horvath was signed by Forest after his performance at the Nation's league final?
Idk if you're trying to prove his point lol
I mean… those were both kinda objectively bad signings lol
What I think he's saying is, just because it's dumb doesn't mean teams aren't still doing it.
But it shows that international performances can still sway decision making, regardless if the signing ends up being good or not.
They said "good clubs" tbf
yeah but he's not arguing if it was a good signing. the argument is that they put stock in it regardless
Not sure about Horvath, but Matt Turner was signed because he was statistically the best goalkeeper in MLS by a wide margin, the Gold Cup performances were just a cherry on top
And look how they turned out....
Hate to say it, but unless he's balling out against Uruguay, Colombia, or Brazil, it won't move the needle much. No one's going to care if he scores a hat-trick against Panama or Bolivia. It doesn't help that the Euros are going to also be happening and most European scouts will be more invested in that tournament.
I think you’re wrong about most scouts being in Europe. They can easily always scout there. Scouring the best talent from the western hemisphere all at one time isn’t as easy for European scouts to do.
Its normal, in just about every sport, for a professional scout to be able to watch and evaluate a athlete's ability and potential regardless of opponent strength. But they have to be able to actually watch the athlete play not sit the bench or jog around at practice. The NBA scouts high schoolers playing against pedestrian teen athletes. The NFL can evaluate an OT that plays for Tulane vs Alabama and draft accordingly. Baseball regularly finds half homeless teens playing on dirt lots on remote islands. Im so tired of this idea that playing well against lower level teams is irrelevant, especially to the young guys struggling at their club... Last cycle even proved it wrong, when Puli, Wes, and Dest were all getting frozen out of their clubs and their really good play for the USMNT at least pulled them out of their own personal rut but likely pushed clubs into reevaluating their abilities outside of their terrible club situations. Gio's game against Mexico as a Regista for Berhalter looked great. Teams will absolutely take note if he is putting up hat tricks for the USMNT even if its against teams like Panama or Boliva. Hell, just a repeat of his complete all around Mexico game a few times and someone will come calling.
No they won't because the standard of play by those national teams is too low. Look who they have on their rosters. How many starters in the EPL, LaLiga, 1.Bl or Serie A are on Panama, Bolivia or Mexico? The NFL doesn't care about what players do vs. scrub competition. For baseball almost every player spends years in the minor leagues. If you think the NBA is scouting high school players on what they do vs. teams with no one taller than 6'-3" then you are delusional.
Kid really can't catch a damn break
Gotta pull himself up my the boot straps
should go to PSV
Did you forget he and Tillman play the same position?
Probably. Remember what Lindsey Horan said about American fans…
Literally no greater evidence than “Gio loan discourse on r/ussoccer”
Tillman usually plays wing for PSV. In fact he’s basically the reason Chucky doesn’t have a starting job anymore. But Gio would probably not be able to get many minutes from Til tho
At this point I’m expecting him to stay at Dortmund and then Nuno to somehow end up as manager there
Tuchel heading to Milan to bench Pulisic as well.
😂
Plenty of places to play (and even start) at mid tier clubs 1st division clubs in Germany, France, Spain.
Wouldn’t mind a move to Italy for him. Wonder if Fiorentina still like him
Also would be a good move
Could you put that in a memo and entitle it "shit I already know"
This is the last place I was expecting a RvB quote, but bravo! RIP Rooster Teeth.
Robin van Bersie said this? This was the last place i'd expect a quote from him as well.
Did he ever have a present at Nottingham?
Looked quite good vs Wolves but now they’re safe from relegation they’ve got zero incentive to play him.
I follow Forest and he’s really been pretty mediocre on a not very good squad. Also the signing never really made sense to me considering the positions he plays are the deepest and most talented positions for the club already.
It’s funny: people keep saying that MGW is the “same position” but on paper Gio actually complemented him pretty well. The main problem is Gio was brought in as a “catastrophic insurance policy” in the event that Gibbs-White was slow to recover from his injury.
I think they could…but where do you slot him in? He hasn’t looked pacy enough when on the pitch and he’s not defensive minded enough to play as a true center mid in the prem. Just my opinion with watching him with the squad. I wish it worked out because he had some moments…just not enough to justify the cost so the where Forest is financially
He's fast enough, he's just not a Tim Weah style pace-merchant. Forest have plenty of those. Forest's problem was they have no midfield control: it's all run-like-Hell on the counter. So they could be relatively successful against Big 5 clubs (by successful I mean lose by a goal or two) while playing like crap vs bottom-dwellers. Given that Forest never really had the time or incentive to implement him into the squad, I thought he did pretty well when he played.
Elanga had a few solid showings mid season but I agree…he’s way too inconsistent. But he sort of fell out of favor yeah I don’t disagree with that at all. I would have liked to see more of him but it just wasn’t in the cards for a variety of reasons
Another speed and power guy like baldy GGG. Elanga looks genuinely terrible in every match but is fast so EPL fans are like “WOW so good”
More like they can actually give him some PT in the last game now
People seem to ignore the incentives, though. Why on Earth would they play a guy they don’t have an option to buy instead of experimenting with their squad (including their developmental pool)?
Exactly. They have no stock in gios development. They would much rather see what they have in guys who are expected to be there next season.
This was an extremely forgettable loan spell. I remember when it happened, I was all excited. I thought he was going to have a breakthrough. Some people on here said "this is not going to go well", and I didn't listen. I'll take the L on this one.
Thank you Captain Obvious (Not pointed at OP).
Honestly I would like to see Gio in Seria A.
agreed
Just need a club that can afford him.
AC Milan or Napoli
Would be nice, but not sure he would get playing time at either of those places. Think he needs to look for a mid table team at this stage tbh
People like you said the same thing about Christian Pulisic on Chelsea, and look how wrong you are lol
How can I be wrong if Gio hasn’t proven me wrong yet? Christian had a strong track record at Dortmund and his first year at Chelsea. What has Gio accomplished that is comparable?
"What has he accomplished?" isn't' a binary thing. At least not to teams when looking at players. He had enough of a track record to be valued at 42M euros before his hamstring injury. That's fallen obviously, but Pulisic came to Milan for 25M and Reyna's worth around 20M (according to Transfermarkt) without any significant playing time.
You know transfermarkt is known to inflate values of players? Also, Gio's value won't play a factor in getting signed to another club. His playing history will.
100%
Totally. I’m still hoping Venezia gets promoted through Serie B playoffs. Would be cool to see him with Busio there!
Yes he could get some time in the bottom half table teams.
Bottom half Serie A sides cannot afford him and Dortmund aren't going to pick up some of his wages so he can play for someone else.
Buddy is gonna pull a Weston and have a stellar year for the team that loaned him out to a disastrous Premier League team the previous year.
Right but first he needs BvB to be on board with loaning him. That’s always been the hitch—they don’t want to let him go.
Nah the guy is saying gio is going to return to Dortmund from a poor loan and ball out for Dortmund next season. Weston had an unsuccessful loan to Leeds and has been really good for juve this season.
Nah Weston's stint at Leeds was much more painful than Gio's at Nottm. Maybe you're right and he'll return with some fire, but I don't think they make a good comparison.
They were both failed loans. Simple as that. It’s not that deep
I still expect him to ball out at Copa this summer. He needs it badly to help his stock too
Considering how poor the USMNT has been under Berhalter vs. non-CONCACRAP sides, I don't have big expectations.
The biggest problem is that BvB doesn’t know exactly what to do with him. The organization obviously rates him, forces him to extend his contract as a condition of seeking minutes elsewhere. He played well at Forest, but it his minutes were always a bit forced: he was brought in as a “break glass in case of” backup for MGW. The two of them actually looked promising together, but they were never going to spend time integrating a player without a buy option once they were “safe.” The most likely outcome is that BvB rebuilds and tries to give Reyna a larger role next season, or they try to put him in a more appropriate setting on a loan w an option to buy. I’d love to see him in Serie A or the Eridivisie next year but there just aren’t many clubs who can afford a player of Reyna’s caliber.
I think that depends on Reyna. I suspect their meeting at the end of the year was regarding his exit from the team. They added a year to give them another chance to loan, but this time they can't ask for a crazy buy number or they will lose him for free. Since he doesn't play, you can't ask teams to pay 20 mil for him...Many la liga teams would be interested at a reasonable price...sociedad has had good fortunate at the 15 mil number....
I doubt he has a future at Dortmund.
Depends on if he wants to stay as a spot starter/super sub or not. Reus and maybe another attacker are leaving and that would open up “some” playing time for him
Stop playing this game man. We all know he won’t get playing time because the coach hates him
So does every coach hate Gio? Because there seems to be a trend.
Gio needs to go somewhere like the Eredivisie to get a solid season on the board, or absolutely ball out against Brazil or Argentina at the Copa. Anything less and he's gonna rot on the vine.
Did they ever say why he wasn’t on the bench last week?
No, but considering they were set up purely to avoid giving up a bunch of goals (because they were protecting their huge goal differential lead over Luton), Gio had no purpose in the side.
On the bright side, his leg is getting stronger. There could have been a timeline where he tore it again, now if he's treated it properly (which is always a big if) he should be well behind it.
Needs loan to a lower league where he can actually play
It really is just that simple. Right now, he's not good enough for the Prem or the top teams in the other 4 leagues. CCV and Reyna are in polar opposite positions and a lot can be learned from CCV to be applied to Reyna. Accept minutes at a lower level club. Carve out a career where you'll actually have one. Not everyone is going to be "great" and that's fine too.
Beasley and Reyna Sr had great careers based out of Scotland as well.
Should’ve never left Dortmund.
I really hate to say it but it was so obvious this move wasn’t going to work out for Gio. He’s not a player that thrives in a relegation side. Especially in the prem
Unfair tbh, he never really got a chance. It seemed like the manager had never any intention to commit to playing him since he was brought in. I think something political went on.
But the manager and Gio share the same agent. If anything, Nuno would want to play Gio more
surprisedpikachu.png
He is a young man, but he really needs to get his mind right. Not sure what move he needs, but what he is currently doing ain't it.
What he's doing is not getting mins, he's super productive when he does. Tired of all this he needs to do this or that or he's injured and shouldn't start blah blah blah bs. Stat line don't lie, the boy balls. Get him some mins.
With all due respect, no coach he has played for agrees with you. While I would get a one or two off, it is pretty consistent. I think he needs a mentality shift and a good fit. That is all I am saying.
I see a lot of things in the world of soccer, hell Suarez was out there biting and legitimately trying to hurt people. People cry left and right and up and down and still get time. The young man is producing.
Come on Milan, you know what to do
Gio at RB
Gio would take Reijnders’ spot in a New York minute.
Can't tell if it's blind optimism or trollin
He’s a €23M player who’s been given every opportunity to shine. Reyna’s a €20M player who was (marginally) overlooked in favor of Julian Brandt and Marco Reus. I think a lot of folks weird antagonism prevents them from seeing things clearly.
Lol he’d be losing his minutes to Pulisic then.
Si he might play the final…good time to go back. 🥴
Forest has no future at Forest, so I guess they're even.
Go to Wrexham.
Dafuq? No.
There would be a hell of a lot worse choices than that, and Gio seems determined to make as many of them as possible.
Seriously.
Maybe in three years when they reach the Premier League.
League one is below his level. I was just thinking he could be a guy who helps them promote this year, bask in the shine of the documentary and play virtually every minute he’s healthy enough to play.
I really doubt they could afford his wages unless Ryan Reynolds pays him personally with Deadpool money
Probably not.
Reyna is clearly very talented, but he is building an attitude reputation that will absolutely wreck his chances of being successful in the sport. He probably should spend 1 year in a small-ish club where he gets the chance to play every single week. That might rehabilitate his reputation.
I have never heard one bit of drama coming from BVB or Forest. I think you’re trying too hard to extrapolate a single issue from the World Cup that we seemed to make a much bigger deal about than anyone in positions of authority.
So much of that stuff is just drama people invent in their heads. And I’m not sure why? Maybe a holdover from the “MLS vs Euro” wars or something…
Because the morons on this sub think that in world football the USMNT matters. Pro-tip : It doesn't. Literally no club outside the USA gives a shit about USNT drama and frankly they'd rather any USA player they have not play for the USMNT because there's only downsides (lack of availability, wear and tear, injuries) and from the perspective of everyone else, no glory. CONCACAF Nations League and the Gold Cup have zero cache.
Clubs absolutely want usmnt stars. They sell merch.
Maybe that is a factor for Pulisic, none of the other players move the needle enough where the few shirt sales counters the downsides. Especially in the case of Reyna, where injuries playing for the USNT are the ones which have de-railed his career. The big injury in Sept 2021 that took away his starting spot and killed his good start to the season under Rose happened while playing for the USNT as did the injury that forced him to miss pre and early season this year. If you think from Dortmund's perspective that missing Gio for those periods of time were in any way counterbalanced by some small amount of merch sales, I think you are wrong.
[удалено]
Well, has he? Retoical, you can go ahead and shut up too.
>Retoical Thanks for showing us all exactly what I’m arguing with.
Point stands, stfu.
Yeah you’re crying lol
Other managers have criticized his training as well. He clearly looks good for us - and good enough to at least get spot minutes for Dortmund and Forest - and it’s kind of telling that he hasn’t.
Which "other managers"? Because Favre raved about Gio and Rose made him the starter going into the season.
Sources, please. Just one link will do it. Thanks!
[Here's one](https://twitter.com/usmntotaku/status/1744354378318856551?s=46&%3Bt=xzxy-cPBbQF2MkLJj1azVg) from this year, which I'll admit isn't a very good source because it's not a direct quote and doesn't specifically mention his effort in training. Tough for me to find one now because I don't speak German, but from talking to other Dortmund fans (who do speak German) the kind of prevailing wisdom among fans was that he was a good player that didn't play good defense and that managers had implied he didn't work on that part of his game in training. Obviously fans are wrong in many cases, but in this case it's pretty consistent with what we've seen. [Another one](https://sbisoccer.com/2023/03/edin-terzic-on-gio-reyna-he-has-to-be-diligent-and-patient) - Terzic saying Gio has to be "diligent and patient", but it's kind of hard to tell what "diligent" means in that context (and obviously, the language thing too).
That last one seems to shed more light than anything, suggesting that it's more of an injury concern than anything else with Terzic. I think the defense thing might have held weight before, but as you can see there, he was the most active defender for Dortmund, not named Hummels, in his few minutes, which is all he can do and that has to come from training. So I am guessing that after showing the improved defense and still not getting a start, probably asked what he had to do to make the first team. He showed in the last game with the US that his defense is solid and appears comfortable playing as an 8 or double pivot...
I agree with the last two sentences. He needs to go to a club where there's no question that he's the number one choice every week. Whether that's in a Championship side, a smaller European country, or even back in MLS (which I'm usually 99% against but makes sense in this case).
No future at Forest? Ya think? He had no future or present for that matter since he walked in the door.
I will say it till I'm blue in the face, Gio needs to find a team that is willing to deal with Gio's inconsistencies when he's not on the ball. A Forest team that was a mess outside of the attack and leaking goals is less likely to give someone like Gio time especially when they're fighting relegation. I don't really think attitude is the issue some think it is (though I do think Claudio getting involved to get him out of Dortmund was a negative) but I do think the last season and a half should be a lesson that he's gotta put the work in when he doesn't have the ball
He's actually quite good OOP. Over on BigSoccer, someone compared Gio's defensive stats versus RLC at Milan: >He plays defense at least as hard/well as RLC at AC Milan. And unlike RLC, he isn't blind when forwards are making runs. I don't know why RLC is an auto starter for Milan and Reyna is a bench warmer for NF, but I do believe Pulisic would rather be on the field with Reyna than he would with RLC when his team needs to score a goal. ||Reyna 22-23 with BvB|RLC 23-24 with Milan| |:-|:-|:-| |Tackles per 90|2.03|1.07| |Tackles won per 90|1.01|0.76| |Blocks per 90|1.16|1.07| |Interceptions per 90|0.43|0.25| |Clearances per 90|0.72|0.41| |Errors leading to opponent shot per 90|0.0|0.05| I think when people say Reyna "doesn't defend" what they mean to say he doesn't pass the eye test--he doesn't make these 80 yard runs back from the opponents 18 when the house is on fire. Instead he presses well and with discipline, and is effective. The exact same critique was lobbed at Tillman when he was at Rangers, and he had similarly impressive numbers--just missing the "run 90 yards to make a last-second block in the 6 yard box. Of course, now he's found his place at PSV, people don't talk about how he's a luxury player who can't defend, and if you brought it up with them they'd say, "It's great he worked to add that to his game!" But he's just doing the same thing he's been doing.
I believe in you Gio! You are soccer royalty! Prove the haters wrong!
Loan to Celtic, he’ll be able to play champions league football and also boss the league every week and get his fitness where it needs to be.
Some teams he might be a good fit at: Crystal Palace - They might be offloading some big attacking talent this window which leaves room for a playmaker like Gio Bayer Leverkusen - Wirtz replacement if he goes (very unlikely move IMO) Dortmund - Reus is gone which leaves more minutes on the table for Gio if he can play into a prominent role for the team Sevilla - [Move almost happened already once](https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/uk-premier-league/2024/01/gio-reyna-transfer-news-sevilla-nottingham-forest-marseille-hijack-borussia-dortmund-usmnt), maybe there is still interest and I think La Liga would suit his play style quite well Milan - RLC has been an interesting experiment for them but he isn't the answer, I think Gio in an AM role would do well in Milan, American owners
Pass me some of what you're smoking. Bayer? Sevilla? Milan? Come now.
Also Dortmund? No way Gio would ever be signed by a club of that caliber!
One bad loan and people here are ready to act like Gio can't play ball anymore, it's bizarre
I think it's more that he's yet to really establish himself as a starter at club level, and it seems like with multiple coaches he's been seen as a weird puzzle piece that doesn't fit into their plans.
I think the main thing is he’s a marginal starter for a CL finalist club. Then BvB forced a weird loan to a relegation EPL loan that was configured to play counterattacking football because they could get a few more euros.
Why do you think I said (very unlikely IMO) lol And yeah he already almost went to [Sevilla in January ](https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/uk-premier-league/2024/01/gio-reyna-transfer-news-sevilla-nottingham-forest-marseille-hijack-borussia-dortmund-usmnt) If he can start and play games for Dortmund he can play for any of those teams I listed realistically
well he didn’t start or play for dortmund much the past 2 years lol
He still started big games for them and contributed off the bench (7g, 2a in 22 games). He also started 3 Champions League games that season. I get you guys want to dunk on Gio, but to ignore his talent level is just insane to me lol
I’m not dunking or ignoring his talent level. You said if can start and play games for BVB, he make the jump to the those teams. I’m just pointing out that he did not start or play much for BVB in last 24 months or so.
He was behind Julian Brandt for cripes sake. lol
And I just pointed out he did in-fact start multiple games, including 3 Champions League games lol. So yeah, if he can start for Dortmund, why wouldn't he be able to start for Sevilla for example?
Other than Sevilla all of those teams are above him right now.
lol
I disagree, Crystal Palace he can certainly play at
He'll break. He doesn't have the physicality to survive in the Prem without getting injured. This last year just showed that. Also, no Prem team is going to sign a player that failed to make an impact at Forest
? He had no problems with the "physicality" of the EPL. You can argue that he lacks the athleticism (specifically quickness) to succeed in the EPL but Gio is plenty strong enough to play in the league. He's a terrible choice for Crystal Palace because of the same reason he was a terrible choice for Forrest- They rely on athletic attackers to do shit 1v1. They are not a passing team. Gio needs to be on a team that wants possession. The problem is that most of the EPL sides that he fits he wouldn't play at. The only EPL side that would make sense would be Brighton.
That's a tough spot to be in. Not athletic enough for the athletic teams but not good enough to win his position at the possession based teams. The sooner he moves to a lower level team, the better. But how many lower level teams play possession based football?
Alternately he just doesn't play in the EPL or he sustains a level of play that is high enough where he could play for the top EPL sides that are more about possession and making the extra pass. Also, if he isn't quick enough to play in the EPL, which is by far the most athletic league, it doesn't mean he cannot play in La Liga, the 1.Bl or Serie A. It's just that at this moment he should be at an upper mid table side in one of those leagues, not the top teams. The problem is that upper mid table sides in those leagues don't really spend a lot of money on individual transfers, which to me is why this loan was especially bad; He had to extend his contract by a season to get the loan and still didn't play. If he hadn't done that even if he wasn't getting on the field for Dortmund he would only be a year away from leaving on a free which I think would make it a lot easier to get to the clubs he should be at.
Sorry, I meant lower level anywhere, not just EPL. I think the loan was the best available option for him. His situation at Dortmund wasn't changing. He fired his agent because they couldn't get him a move. At the time, there's was a strongly held belief that the BVB coach was the impediment. So long as he could get in front of another coach, he'd win out the position or, at least, win meaningful minutes. I believe that Gio believed this, his private team believed this, this sub definitely believed this. Without this loan, I think he wouldn't be playing at BVB but he would believe (and people would still be arguing) that he should go to a top level EPL or La Liga team. This loan was a necessary dose of reality for him. Hopefully, it spurs him in the right direction.
Atalanta..... if that fails.... Atlanta
Atalanta is going to purchase DeKetalaere who plays the same position as Gio would I believe.
From his latest play on the national team and when he did get to play at Forrest, Gio looked like a willing defender and his eye/mind for where the ball should be was definitely there. That said he 100% lacks acceleration against top talent - whether that’s him just getting back to match fitness or a result from his injuries we won’t know until he plays more. He needs minutes. I think there is a real opportunity for him to prove it over the summer and find form with BVB again because it’s obvious they lack creativity offensively. I also love the fit for him in La Liga or Serie A where he can excel with just his technical skills while he works on proving he can stay healthy. P.S. Please get a new agent
The agent is not the problem. The problem is Gio and his family. They fired the prior agent in order to get this move.
The agent that shared ties with the manager of the team he sent him to? I agree the family and Gio’s decision making has been a problem, but let’s not pretend like this transfer situation wasn’t blatantly taken advantage of
The Reynas specifically hired that agent to get him a loan.
It’s silly to argue that this was the move he wanted, though. This was largely a move forced by BvB.
Seriously, if you watched Forest they were built as a counterattacking side that had speed and little else. MGW was quite dangerous in transition, and CHO had one move (though a good move): take it to the top of the box, cut inside and send a right-footed curler into the far post. They were an *extremely* one-dimensional team. Reyna was actually a pretty good fit, but would’ve needed to begin the season at Forest. As it was he had like one start and some handful of minutes and still had an assist and what arguably should have been a penalty.
No, he was an extremely bad fit because of the reasons you said. Gio is a player who looks to make the extra pass, Forest are a trash tier passing team. They rely on athleticism and players trying shit 1v1. Gio needed to understand that on this team making the extra pass means the ball ends up on the foot a player who is ass. He needed to understand on this team you need to be really selfish in the attacking third.
When you go back and look at the games where he got significant minutes, so much of that was him beating three guys and spring and overlapping Neco Williams on the right who then received the ball and…took three extra touches and failed to do anything.
It’s also the reason they looked dangerous against top tier sides who came and attacked them, whereas they looked like crap against teams that bunkered and looked to counterattack.
Suitcases: Matt Miazga (New) Gio Reyna
Will Gio make it back to Dortmund in time to make an appearance in the Champions League final?
Good, get him out of there. The kid does nothing but ball for the usmnt and his mins were great at Forest as well. Get Turner out as well and fuck forest. The team is ass and the boys get no time. They can suck it on their own.
Time to temper your expectations lads. A lot of you need to come to terms with the fact that he's just simply not some generational talent. And on top of that, this Forest move was DOGSHIT. He better be looking at a new agent after this. He will be good, and I think he can become an important player in an established European side. But he hasnt even shown enough promise to reach the level at the heights in his career that Pulisic already has. The Sociedad, Sevilla or Marseille moves that were bounced around a few months back wouldve looked genius right about now. No need for 10s in the Prem right now, give up on it and move on.
I think context matters, he’s definitely a generational talent in terms of a homegrown US player. But in the context of the world, probably not… That being said it’s exceptionally rare for non-domestic players to be a locked in as starters at 21 years old. I think he has enough positive attributes that a manager/club will bring him in with an actual plan. The hope is that it happens quicker for him than it did for Pulisic.
I fully agree that context matters! He's gonna be a phenomenal player in the grand scheme of American soccer history. But that context needs to be used for USMNT fanatics when framing this dudes career. I know he's just a kid and he's got lots of time to improve but he's NOT gonna become the next #10 at Barcelona, Bayern, PSG etc. Not even at Milan or Chelsea, like a certain someone else. Ill echo the sentiments of wanting him to go to Eredivisie, Ligue 1, maybe a midtable Spanish or German side. Dest, Weston, Jedi etc all refined their craft at a tier 2 or even tier 3 side in terms of global quality. Gio needs THAT right now, NOT a Dortmund or Milan lmao
If there were any on field evidence that he can't play for a team like Dortmund or Forest, I would agree...but I struggle to find a game where he hasn't made the team better when he comes on, especially for the US and Dortmund. I don't see any reason for him to go to a worse competition for a while when he has already proved he is more than capable at a club like Dortmund...Players want to be challenged...I suspect Dest will not want to return to the Eredivisie following his injury either...I don't think its as fun when its easy and players looking to reach their potential know when you have a hard time finding better guys in the room, you need to move to another room.
Lol not sure about your ball knowledge man. PSV is a champions league quality side and Dest will be hungry to make his move there permanent at least for now. This isn't FIFA, I promise you he doesn't feel like he's playing on "semi-pro" while he's there lmao
Money is a factor for Dest. He is used to making 6M a year and there will be other teams looking for his services...it won't be easy to figure out a deal...I think he would be happy to play there, but I also think there are other teams he would be happy to play at as well...he made the team of the month 4 times meaning he is one of the top fullbacks in the league (this is obviously not semi-pro, this isn't specific to that league).
Yeah, same with Wes, if a player can't even play well on Leeds...we gotta seriously think about whether he deserves a first team call up...or maybe things change fast? Sociedad are licking their lips right now...I imagine this phone call with Dortmund will be much different. At least they won't just hang up when they hear the buy option number. Otherwise they lose him for free.
Your statement lacks nuance. Wes was a consistent first team player at Schalke. Aka a club that wasnt expected (at the time) to be fighting for trophies OR fighting their way out of relegation. Just playing ball
>You statement lacks nuance. Agreed. People need to take a deep breath: Kid is 21, was a (marginally preferred) backup to a German national team attacking midfielder, and a club legend at BvB. Forest wasn't a great fit (other than financially for BvB), but he actually did fine with the minutes he got. Wes was a squad player for a mid-table BL team but never showed any of the production Reyna did when he was playing under the previous manager before he was injured.
When someone is that confident in their opinion on a 21 year old...I'm definitely going to point out weird things that happen and how hard it is to know what the landscape will look next year much less the next decade...i trust my eyes...when gio is on the field, Dortmund plays better, when gio is on the field the US plays better...Unless they are deep faking streaming games, im gunna trust my eyes until they fail me...ill take your stock
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Not quite there yet imo. Would much rather he go to the Dutch league if he’s taking a step down in leagues
He is way, way too talented to go back to the US. Plenty of options between starting for Dortmund and the MLS for him in the meantime (other teams in Germany, leagues like the Netherlands, France, etc).
Does this kid have a real attitude problem? Beefs with US coach. Can't find the field at Dortmund or a very below average NF. Mad skills yet can't get playing time? Starting to do the math.
some people are going to find evidence for anything they want to believe.
Fuck Forest I hope they get relegated
I actually started to like Forest while following Reyna’s loan. They’re like the anti-Leeds… :)
Seriously, how can anyone hate this club: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nffc/comments/1cr932q/oh\_no/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nffc/comments/1cr932q/oh_no/)
I'm not sure what this is. I primarily care about Gio and want him to play and develop, and Forest seemed to drop the ball with him. Unless something extreme happens, they'll stay up.
>I'm not sure what this is. Sorry, that photo was of the club's ridiculous owner and the supporters mercilessly dragging him. lol >I primarily care about Gio and want him to play and develop Yeah, me too. I don't blame Forest though--I more blame Dortmund for prioritizing short-term $$$ over their medium- and long-term player development. They could've sent Gio to a more "approprate" club and not made quite as much money, or they could've included a purchase option in the loan agreement in which case Forest would've had more incentive to integrate him. As it was, they maximized their balance sheet at the cost of yet another one of their young player's development.
Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks! Yeah Dortmund maximizes selling big players for a lot of money (Haaland, Bellingham, Sancho) and clearly just does whatever it takes to make money off of other players, then plead poverty when trying to buy players. I'm a United supporter, too, and would love to get a good price to sell Sancho back to Dortmund, but we'll see. Hopefully Gio will get a better landing spot during the summer.
In some ways it was a bit of "out of the fire, into the frying pan" because--despite their unexpected success in the CL--Dortmund's been a bit of a dumpster fire. Lot of in-fighting among cliques of players, the club brought in Sahin as a kind of "advisor/coach-in-waiting" to either replace or supplement Terzic. It's just a train wreck. And as part of the Forest loan, BvB demanded an extra contract year, so clearly they're protecting what they see as a valuable investment. Whether that means he's going to get more playing time as a "shop window" at Dortmund, or he gets a more "appropriate" loan like Malik ended up with Bayern (going to Rangers, then PSV with various downstream incentives and payouts for performance, etc...) remains to be seen.
He has no present there either
Everton could use a creative player like Gio and he’d get plenty of minutes in EPL
I’m holding out hope for Rangers. I’ll keep saying it until the new club is announced.